Jump_Demania

[Zyphon]

Hey, so this is my new map jump_demania.

It's my first demo map and i'm not good at demo at all lol so feedback and testing much appreciated.

It's probably t3 demo and is probably a bit different to normal maps for demo.
I haven't really decided on textures yet, but tried out different designs over different jumps and lighting isnt totally done yet so might need fullbright in some  narrow connectors atm.

I tried to make connectors interesting and require specific strafing/ manoeuvres to do most effectively
Hopefully it's just a fun different map for demo!

How to do jumps:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

j1: double, strafe up, strafe back down
j2: slide down ramp, prefireing 3 stickies to the bottom, det all 3 sliding backwards
j3: slide on ramp, 1 down air sticky
J4: shoot 2 stickies in top hole, slide down ramp, prefire another sticky, and 3 sticky catch. (note: timing works best to shoot 3 in top hole then go)
j5: 2 stickies off the side wall at start, 1 air sticky
j6: sticky jump up, 2 stickies on front wall as you fall, then det pushing you down.
j7: short limited regen pogo
j8: single sticky, to air, then strafe under.
j9: Down airs to pogo, 2 sticky up, shoot 4 stickies back down. quad sticky  back up.
j10: single, to air, strafe, another air sticky.
j11: place single, prefire 1 through glass, jump up and strafe, prefiring 2 more stickies down, triple catch
j12: slide down ramp, wall pogo recover, then go back up.
j13: single to 1 vert, strafe, double catch on the side, mini pogo off, 1 air and strafe.
j14: Air double using side wall, pogo, doub le up with 1 air.
j15: pogo off platform, high 2 sticky catch, pogo to end, 2 sticky up, 2 sticky off white wall, pogo on wall top, demo drop pogo and double off bottom.
j16: vert up, headbug ceiling, then wiggle strafe
j17: double up, strafe over top of the wall and catch with stickies on the other side, wall pogo down, switching walls. pogo, 2 sticky up to end.

Showcase:


Download

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lhzk499w1nu9s3w/jump_demania_v2.bsp?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vo2tt3ycl6desay/jump_demania_a2.bsp?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i9y9f16ahpq14hi/jump_demania_final.bsp?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ktiyjxmtxfk45h2/jump_demania_rc2.bsp?dl=0

[Waldo]

Feedback:

General:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Add tick regen (Gorge's prefab). trigger_hurt is very inadequate for demo jumping, even small/short stuff.

Textures are super inconsistent but I figure you'll get to real detailing later.

Nonade really sucks on demoman, especially for speedrunning. If you want a jump to involve sliding on ramps, cool, but dont start with waddling around on a nonade platform. In general, you shouldn't need anything more than roller and playerclip/illusory walls to anticheat.

I didn't decompile to check, but it seems like you used pretty thick func_clip_vphysics for roller walls; those can be 1 unit.

No regen connectors are also pretty iffy since you only really need to care about it if you get unlucky with regen -- demo pretty frequently leaves regen at high speed, so whether you have 8 or 5 stickies is pretty much random. Getting punished in the next connector because you went fast isn't fun.

Can't really go wrong with koi connectors.

Level-by-level:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1: Works with double->strafe, but that requires a very strong double (for a t3 map). Also, it's a bit too tight to do a pushdown at the top, so it's annoying to do quickly. Making the whole thing a little bit lower (~256-512u) would make it feel better.
2: Very awkward because of nonade start; walking for 4 seconds from the previous connector is awful. Could rework this by having the connector drop you instantly onto the ramp and have the fail tele put you back on it (with catapult 0 so you don't telehop). Triple sticky with overheal is fine I guess, but in general it's disconcerting to have different max hp throughout a map.
3: The pillar in the middle seems to have no impact other than making speedrun strats a bit more painful (have to single -> charge air instead ofairdouble from connector). Not really a problem though, good jump.
4: Roller tubes are hilariously inconsistent (both in where they go and in how long it takes) so this would probably get cheated by placing stickies, failing, then sliding to them. You could do something similar by letting the player shoot through a playerclip wall with visibility on the eb platform. Right now if you single from connector and shoot 3 in the hole while holding w, you get to the eb before ANY of the stickies land, so there's a lot of waiting.
5: Missing regen. Replacing nonade with roller and respacing it to be making it 2pre into ramp would feel a lot better; getting the right speed to get a good airsticky with t3 skills would be pretty painful. Nonade also makes the speed strat a garbage spaced 2pre or a triple, and the headcheck prevents any really fast strats.
6: Good jump. Can technically cheat with pogo on the platforms, but that's harder than intended so it's fine. If you really wanted to anticheat it, make stuff non-solid to stickies instead of nonade.
7: Intended is fine; fast would be a triple/tick3 which is a pretty painful angle because of the low ceiling. Up to you if you want it to be easy or not, as is it's definitely  harder than intended.
8: Spacing is a bit long for a singlepre but it's fine if you shoot late. Previous connector is nicely spaced for an airdouble for speedrun.
9: Forgot some lights in the preceding connector. The nonade on this jump serves no purpose other than making a speedrun worse; pogo -> vert is too hard to be a "cheat" but it's way faster and more fun. Just axe the nonade. The quad also feels inconsistent since you're shooting not-quite-down and the hole is only directly over the platform; might want to make it a bit bigger. I'd also call this "singlepre to pogo" not "downair."
10: 2 air stickies with strafing is definitely on the hard side for t3; keeping the pogo platform in the middle intended would be good. For speedrunning, it would be nice if you could double->air or double->wall double from connector without so much difficulty.
11: Again, very weird to have overheal triples in the middle of a jump. Keeping the glass but respacing it so intended is a double catch would be cool to run since it lets you set up a tick3 without needing to go slowly. Regardless, the glass starts very close to the wall which makes the (rather high) single awkward to strafe. Also, might as well be full regen since 8 stickies is already enough to catch and double instead of straight to end.
12: Don't really know what you expected to happen here; giant nonade room means you either jump to the ramp from connector (and its impossible to complete without slowing down a ton) and even then I don't know what's intended for the edge of the ramp. Nonade and invisible roller walls make this impossible to do quickly and so its just a matter of smashing S at the end of the ramp and setting up a catch, or a very steep downair (i.e. nowhere near t3). you could do something similar with a roller ramp ending in 1-2 sticky airpogo to a wall, and that would be way better to play as well as speedrun.
13: This connector->jump is kinda gnarly; you can still just 2pre to the top. Starting from shoot up->vert it's fine; full regen wouldn't hurt since it has a pogo catch.
14: Preceding connector is Interesting. Jump is good vanilla demo content; spacing is good for airdouble->vert.
15: Missing some lights in preceding connector. Fine jump, needs better indication of where to go/what you can shoot.
16: No catapult 0 on the headbug tele so you just telehop almost every time. With one, you'd fall in the slow hole every time. Would be cool if you could prefire through the ceiling to the tele dest to start the next connector.
17: Replace nonades with roller; even if you pogo down to do intended you'll sometimes do an air when you switch walls. Forcing wall downpogo with nonade in the air just makes it suck to speedrun. Raising the ceiling so that you can just downair from the connector would be cool.

Despite the criticism, lots of good ideas in here.

[cowboyana]

12: Don't really know what you expected to happen here; giant nonade room means you either jump to the ramp from connector (and its impossible to complete without slowing down a ton) and even then I don't know what's intended for the edge of the ramp. Nonade and invisible roller walls make this impossible to do quickly and so its just a matter of smashing S at the end of the ramp and setting up a catch, or a very steep downair
Despite the criticism, lots of good ideas in here.

for 12 one solution could be going for a start like jump_across jump 7 (41 seconds in, timestamp doesnt seem to work for embed?) where you can can either  shoot self down from connector to ramp edgebug->skip over jump start->air sticky (air doubling or single air with u turn after eb to slot end) or go at a normal pace so eb sends you to the flat ground jump start past the ramp for a catch->wall double. but it depends what you were wanting for this jump i suppose

[hex]

this map is really cool, lots of ideas here that arent in any other maps which is refreshing to see.

i dont think i have any feedback that waldo didn't cover in his nerd essay but please add tick regen using gorge's prefab, dying to double pres is lame it's not 2002 anymore. the only issue would be with the jumps that use the weird overheal trigger thing for intended triples+ but you could manually increase the max hp there using what gorge describes in his post if that's what you want to do.

also nogrenade is rarely fun to play with since you just get owned trying to figure out what's shootable and what's not. whenever you finalize your textures im sure they'd be consistent which would help but the less you use the better, generally. doubly so for floating nogrenade that's not next to a wall.

[shakez]

Im bored, so have another feedback essay

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

jump1: You can pogo on all the platforms, idk if thats intended (judging by later jumps&textures it seems like it is intended)

Im also not a big fan of the 1-2 connector. Waldos suggestion sounds better and more fun

jump2: I kinda like the jump. Just note that you can put the stickies on the edge of the start platform in a way they stick and dont get eaten by nonade, means you can just 2sticky the jump. I did the jump like this the first time because i didnt see the ramp (mainly because of where the connector puts you)
I also feel like this should be jump 1 since its much easier

jump3: Cool jump

jump4: What waldo said
If you want to keep it like this, it would be nice if you could see the stickies rolling down so you can time it easier


jump5: It feels weird that the red floor is only tele height 1 now (was 128 on the previous jumps. Otherwise the jump is fine if you add the missing regen

jump6: I kept getting owned by failing edgebugs. You might want to have a look at Starkie's prefab for consistent auto edgebugs for this. But the jump is nice

jump7: Epic

jump8: Fine

jump9: The conecpt is kinda cool, but i think the quad part of it is pointless. Atm you can just pogo and triple up, which also makes the nonade pointless. If you actually want the player to do a (good) quad you could obviously raise the end, but i dont think that would be a good idea (could make it a bonus tho)

jump10: The way you intended it to be seems a bit hard for where it is in the map and for t3. Also doing a single pre + 1 air seems much easier but still tricky for t3. In the current version you are able to pogo on the 128u thick walls. Idk if that is intended, but if you keep it like this the jump is fine where it is i guess

jump11: I like the concept of the jump, but the glass wall feels kind of unnecessary rn since you can just double/triple using the black roller wall

jump12: Im honestly not a big fan of this. Idek how this is supposed to be done. You can stop at the very end of the ramp (not very fun), fire 2 stickies and catch easily. Perhaps you could make the black ramp shoot through, so you can prefire 2 while sliding and then catch or something like that

connector 12-13: Im not quite sure why you put the glass there, you can still easily double pre up. But i like the way this connects into jump13

jump13: Fun jump

connector 13-14: This is probably the only connector i dont really like. It would be fine if you could surf the middle ramp and/or slide up at the end i guess. Right now its basically just a triple pre connector

jump14: Nice jump but im not sure why you intended this to be an airdouble from the side wall, using the floor works just fine (should keep it this way, i dont want another jump_contact jump6 haha, up to you tho)

jump15: Fine

jump16: Alright jump but make sure to add some kind of hint so people know what to do. You could probably make this more interesting tho. Also due to telehops it kind of feels impossible to actually fail the part after the headbug

jump17: Idk if im just bad at doubles, but this feels a bit too high to double up and start wallpogo comfortably

All in all it was  fun to play. There are some nice ideas in there. But there is room for improvement on some stuff.

As for detailing: i quite liked the spawn area. I think this would work quite well for the whole map.
General detailing thing: Ive noticed there are some black walls that are roller, some are just nonade. Whatever the final detailing will be, make sure to make it consistent throughout the map and stick to 1 kind of anti cheat

[Zyphon]

Thanks for all the quick feedback!
I havent worked on everything yet, but here is a changelog for the new version with a bunch of the feedback changes.

Note: There is a new bonus jump, I can't do it myself but i thought it would be a cool idea and should work, would be appreciated if you demo gods could test it c: probably t4 bonus, not sure.

Changelog:

-spawn area changes upgrades
-Bonus jump added, connects to spawn and teleport there from map end.
-Tick regen health
-entire map ammo regen
-entire map  similar texturing
-Lighting
-Ramp jump 5, allows stickies through it,
-Headbug jump, allows stickies through ceiling
-See through pipe for stickies on jump 3
-Removed pillar, jump 4.

Notes: the main reason for the nonades on the wall jumps was i fuigured it would allow for more speedrun competition, not just people who grind airpogo 24/7, but idk much about demo, so if people think this really isnt necessary i can remove them.

Download:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vo2tt3ycl6desay/jump_demania_a2.bsp?dl=0

[shakez]

The bonus works
The light on jump 15 is way too bright now

The end of jump 16 feels a bit weird now since that purple texture lets stickies through, while it doesnt do that for the rest of the map. Maybe make it transparent? (might just be me tho)

[Zyphon]

Here is the finished version of the map!

Changelog:
-Texture alignments
-added 2 more bonuses, 3 total
-made map possible as solly, mostly no tele
-added detailed end cp room
-added no friction to auto ebs
-secret
-removed nonades from last

Download:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i9y9f16ahpq14hi/jump_demania_final.bsp?dl=0

[seras/roberto]

Demo Testing:
Level 1: Perfectly fine
Level 2: Perfectly fine
Level 3: Perfectly fine
Level 4:
   missing teles on level  at: setpos -5087.566406 -9801.219727 -4795.968750 and setpos -5095.975586 -9015.918945 -4795.968750
   Otherwise, perfectly fine
Level 5: Perfectly fine
Level 6: Perfectly fine
Level 7: Perfectly fine
Level 8: Perfectly fine assuming you're supposed to be able to slide on the ramp
Level 9: Perfectly fine (as in it works as intended, but its an awkward jump)
Level 10: Perfectly fine
Level 11:
   Can pogo on the wall that you're supposed to strafe over, making the intended version of the jump harder and also pointless. Not          
   sure if intentional - most of the other red textures like that in the map are not usable so the intention here
   isn't very clear.
Level 12:
   You can cheat the jump by placing stickies at the bottom of the ramp - see attached video
   
   You can fix this by extending the nogrenade to go below the bottom of the ramp:
   
I like the concept and it works fine as intended otherwise.
Level 13: Perfectly fine
Level 14: Perfectly fine
Level 15: Perfectly fine
Level 16: Perfectly fine
Level 17: Perfectly fine
Bonus 1: Can pogo on the wall under the glass all around it - big cheat stopping you from doing it intended way

Bonus 2: Perfectly fine
Bonus 3: Perfectly fine
 
Soldier testing:
Since most hard-ish levels are notele, the map run seems fine. Only feedback is to make the teles that soldier is able to stand on a different coloured texture maybe so it's easier to tell where you can and can't stand.
Also, some levels have random teles that are filtered, and then the tele right next to them will send you back to the start. It's very inconsistent knowing where you can and can't go.
 
Bonus one is really janky - the tele is filtered and you just fall through the glass and start bugging out
It's completely unreliable as soldier for getting a good time on tempus since you just have to get lucky that it doesn't screw you over. Making side wall nogrenades 1 unit away from the wall to allow soldiers to wallshot would be ideal.\

Very awesome map. Great job

[Zyphon]

Changelog for rc1:
Fixed missing teles jump4
Ramp is fine to slide on
Can't pogo on strafe wall jump 11
Nonade extended on end of ramp, jump 12
Nonade added bellow the teleport on b1 to prevent cheating
Solly can shoot walls on b1
solly can stand on white ground and dull red ground only
Removed stray trigger hurts
filtered overheals to demo
No more demo filter on b3

Download
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a1traujw4740hsp/jump_demania_rc1.bsp?dl=0

[Zyphon]

RC2 Changelog:
Fixed auto eb frictionless floor
B1 now teleports solly to stop them getting stuck

Download
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ktiyjxmtxfk45h2/jump_demania_rc2.bsp?dl=0