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Button cheating as demoman

Washed up hack

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When is having someone shoot buttons for you becoming a BANNABLE OFFENCE
I've seen some people not even try to do them before they cry for a soldier, some of them being pissbaby tier easy too. I mean it's just pathetic to need it for completion but it's just unfair for tt's and wr's(soups shiver wr smh -_-). Higher ranked demoman will always have a friend or some soldier to kiss their ass. It blurs the line between people who have INTEGRITY and HONOR and those who don't. Isn't that the reason doors from maps like eons were removed, to avoid people from using other people to hold them open? I know it's impossible to stop it but so is freezeglitching. Make it REPORTABLE.


All maps are pretty possible and reasonable aside from cube and able to be tt'd except for maybe proto/cubic/cube. Some maps you to abuse noclip but as long as its possible solo I think it's fine tbh.

What i'm trying to say is people like this need to DIE and be PURGED from Tempus.

Mfw a button cheater posts on the forum http://tf2rj.com/forum/index.php?topic=1496.msg11186#msg11186
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 09:22:11 PM by Foss l Obeezyfanclub »
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AI

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I read this as "someone pressing buttons for you" at first and got terribly confused:



Zike

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Although Foss is being a little hyperbolic, having someone to shoot buttons for you during a run is rather asinine. In the majority of button jumps, even if a demo can do it without any assistance, having someone shoot the button for you will save time. Having a friend shoot the buttons can also make jumps significantly easier. A great example of this is jump 13 on elysium. If a jumper has a friend shoot the 3 buttons he or she can just fall straight down the hole instead of having to spend time trying to hit all the buttons and strafe into the small hole. This assistance eliminates the difficulty of the only challenging jump on the map. Furthermore, needing this assistance for wr is not exactly fair. Not everyone can convince someone to be ready to shoot buttons for them while he or she grinds a map for hours on end. I hate to use shiver as an example due to my blindingly apparent bias, but it is silly that if anyone wants to even try to get wr on the map he or she has to have someone standing at jump 13 spamming rockets at the button that will allow anyone who stands in the trigger to be teleported to the end of the jump. It is impossible to beat Soup Can's time without having someone do this because this skip saves about 15-20 seconds. I feel that there should be some kind of change; however I do not think that reporting these people will work. What if someone happens to be going through a jump at the same time that someone else is? The offender did not intentionally cheat, yet he or she now has saved extra time others cannot without breaking this possible rule.


879m

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Because of accidental button pushing from other players happening every now and then you can't do anything about it. It's not even a problem though, you are playing online with other people, on a server where you try to get the fastest times, doing a strat to go faster. Also, people already recognise the difference between offline and online wrs, if you don't like how button pushing gets a better time then play offline. If you don't have any friends that will push buttons for you for a few minutes or longer then you need better friends.


Gorge004

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Because of accidental button pushing from other players happening every now and then you can't do anything about it. It's not even a problem though, you are playing online with other people, on a server where you try to get the fastest times, doing a strat to go faster. Also, people already recognise the difference between offline and online wrs, if you don't like how button pushing gets a better time then play offline. If you don't have any friends that will push buttons for you for a few minutes or longer then you need better friends.

I agree with 879m. If youre good enough to compete for wr, having someone shoot a button for you shouldnt be a problem.

Its true tho that its very stupid when a demo gets to a button jump, immediatly ask for button help without even trying it, and quit if nobody helps him. Maybe have an indication when a jump is impossible without button help, like cube c3 jump i believe. It would at least make some demo try before quitting.


SALSAA

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i think its ok to push buttons on maps like cube cubic and proto but when you have some soldier kissing your ass to do 2 buttons that possess an obvious advantage even though they are perfectly doable as demo thats just dum
an offense that should erase a run would be button pressing soldiers on DEMO maps or that press rly easy buttons on soldier maps

Why do you read this like it doesn't even matter just read my message its probably more important


Washed up hack

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I just don't see how, in a competition of personal speed, having a second parties help is acceptable. Its the reason why doors and shooting while noclipped were removed. Why don't we also allow soldiers/pyros on the other team so that they can help other soldiers sync so that they can go faster?

I don't see very many scenarios where a button could be accidentally pressed without the demo already taking time to try and do the button properly if they even had a shred of INTEGRITY. If that doesn't happen maybe they could treat it as a flaw and redo the jump.

Also there are not many jumps that are impossible. Chambers and Cube, 3 jumps, even then they're probably possible. I seriously can't think of another one that you can't do solo. Maybe proto.

Ethos is entirely correct
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jayess

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I think that moderating runs to check for button cheating is somewhat unsustainable when a better solution may be to remove those kinds of buttons from maps entirely. Ideally, the button/door systems would be "instanced" for each player, though that isn't really feasible with how SourceTV works.

We may need to revisit whether to remove button systems from those kinds of maps.

An alternative might be to use filtered teleporters instead of doors, though there isn't really any good way to indicate whether or not you've activated those.

I believe leaving it as-is is a problem because of the potential for accidentally getting a "cheated" run when there's someone else running the map in front of you.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2016, 03:44:54 PM by jayess »


catfoosh

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Remove buttons or play the superior soldier class tbh


Kendrick.

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John

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buttons are an intended mechanic of jump maps
sucks 2 suck if u hate buttons but the creator made buttons for this reason

An alternative might be to use filtered teleporters instead of doors, though there isn't really any good way to indicate whether or not you've activated those.

Is there a way for button -> hud text changes that shows that you've activated the buttons? if so then filtered teleporters = top yes

« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 12:44:43 AM by John »


jayess

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Is there a way for button -> hud text changes that shows that you've activated the buttons? if so then filtered teleporters = top yes

I think that sounds reasonable, but the main problem imo is there'd be no visual indicator there's a door in the first place, so it's likely to cause confusion for players new to a map.

EDIT: Maybe the door could remain there and work normally, but be non-solid and translucent?

Also need to consider that it wouldn't be a 1:1 change in some cases as it would effectively remove the time it takes for the door to open.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 01:24:47 AM by jayess »


John

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Is there a way for button -> hud text changes that shows that you've activated the buttons? if so then filtered teleporters = top yes

I think that sounds reasonable, but the main problem imo is there'd be no visual indicator there's a door in the first place, so it's likely to cause confusion for players new to a map.

EDIT: Maybe the door could remain there and work normally, but be non-solid and translucent?

Also need to consider that it wouldn't be a 1:1 change in some cases as it would effectively remove the time it takes for the door to open.

that sounds fine actually, though prefires become an issue if you can shoot through the non-existing doors now.

on other concern: are there any maps there that are extremely strict on door openings? most doors open >very< quickly
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 02:23:44 AM by John »