jump_pyrokinesis (pyro jump map)

[Red Dagger]

A jump map for the pyro's detonator that I've been working on for a while now, since this is the first map I've come close to completing I used it as an excuse for some detailing.

5 courses of increasing difficulty with 8-9 jumps per course:

A - Beginner, can be completed without any self-dets.
B - Horizontal jumps, B5 onward requires multiple independent jumps to complete a single jump.
C - Vertical jumps, also a single fancy surf thing.
D - Intermediate, with a lot of rampy nonsense cor blimey and mid-air dets
E - General harder stuff, with a focus on strafing into annoying situations.


 Jumps have been limited to "realistic" jumps, i.e. no special surfaces, the only teleports are on the floor for when you fail a jump, and reasonable scaling.

Showcase by VAVLIE:


Downloads
jump_pyrokinesis_rc1:
https://tf2maps.net/downloads/pyrokinesis.7368/
jump_pyrokinesis_b5:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/528wt78hcfs07b9/jump_pyrokinesis_b5.bsp
jump_pyrokinesis_b4:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e60wf0q7oxj64r5/jump_pyrokinesis_b4.bsp
jump_pyrokinesis_b3:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ahkt7ah6gdnfchb/jump_pyrokinesis_b3.bsp

Thanks to VAVLIE and Splerp for testing and feedback - you would kinda hate me if you tried completing the iterations I sent to these guys, so props to them for seeing it through from the initial greybox stages.

Images
https://imgur.com/a/FrEDjaE

Images (b5)
https://imgur.com/a/XlD4Z

Images (b4)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Images (original)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Even if you have no intention of getting through the jumps, I'd definitely appreciate feedback on the detailing side of things. Right now it's mostly just brushwork with a few essential props and decals (e.g. fences and jump numbering), so there's basically zero decorative entities, lighting has been slapped on just to light up the rooms, and there's zero sound at the moment. Got me a skybox though!

I have every intention of creating a release candidate version with the detailing pass it deserves, but I've slowed down work on it a bit so felt like getting it out there in a semi-complete state.

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

[Dr Gains]

Love the work you put into detailing, very fitting to the general tf2 look! Also like how the map loops back into it self and feels fairly open. Ive only made it as far as c-5 and still trying to figure out how to do high vertical jumps consistently. Only things Ive found were: being able to stand on the ground on A-4 far right, stand on small building fence along A2~4. You can crawl up C-2 slightly which could prevent you from jumping you can still jump. For whatever reason C-8 seemed easier than C-3, but maybe I just got luckytotally missed the ledge behind wall to outside.... Also wish there were more jumps like E-9 that require 2nd det mid jump, oh well. Dont care much for the multiple single jumps as in 3 or more, tedious and frustrating to fail but thats just my opinion and I dont speak for everybody. Could also use some help text or whatever on jumps B2 and C2 as they were impossible until I watched Valvies Advanced Techniques video. By far the best detonator map so far though!

[donuttt]

oh boy, this is some top tier detailing. i was able to do the A course first-trying pretty much every jump, but the 1st jump of the B course was already pretty challenging. maybe i'm just bad tho.

one cosmetic thing that caught my attention was your water around the spawn area, maybe fiddle around with the texture scale so the water doesn't look as repetitive as it currently does. it's an easy fix to a mild issue, it will make your map a tad better than it already is for my eyes

[Red Dagger]

got me a b4, updated OP with a few images if ya wanna have a quick look at the detailing

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e60wf0q7oxj64r5/jump_pyrokinesis_b4.bsp?dl=0

Lots of map changes (like a couple from Dr Gains as well, danke), jump changes, water is probably finalised (thanks donuttt, turns out most maps actually use water that's 4 times the scale of default textures), random general quality changes like a soundscape and welcome camera; but most importantly, I did a detail pass on the A course so it should be about final level, and added help stuff on each A jump (since it's meant to be the beginner stage, other stages will be pretty devoid of help stuff). This is more of a feedback-only version so don't mind the contrast in detail

I'd love a little feedback on the A-course detailing, and if the implemented help system is fine. Also not sure which jumps post-A will benefit from help stuff, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anyone who feels like powering through all/a lot of the jumps and giving feedback on any of them is greatly appreciated!

And again, thanks in advance for any feedback!

[VAVLIE]

Here we go!

Overall: main problem for me is some transitions still feel awkward/cramped. Other than that, the map is starting to turn into something wonderful!
Help nodes: I think they are well implemented, but I'm really unsure if they are necessary on Course A, other than A7. Basic detonator stuff is the exact same as basic rocket jumping, and there's already plenty of resources for that. They would only help players who are at their very first jumping experience. Some people might disagree though so it's worth asking around.

Here are the later levels where help nodes might be useful:

-Maybe B2, first real self-det
-B3: Mid air self-det (its the first one like that, can be a bit confusing at first to know what's intended)
-C8: 256 isnt quite max height, (max height is 271 as far as i know), but self-det is definitely required. You actually dont need advanced tech to get that high, just a good right strafe self-det. The jump needs to cost 42 hp minimum, it can be a good indicator of doing things right.
-D2: I'm still not sure to understand what's going on here, as I see it you need to kind of self-det powerbounce on the smaller ramp part to keep your forward speed, i dont really know how you would call it. But it definitely needs a help node (i remember spending 20 minutes on this thinking it was some sort of auto-edgebug)
-D4 possibly

A course detailing: good stuff! The only things bugging me are the layouts of A7 and B1. Feels cramped and unatural, but i'd have trouble telling you why. Also the little round ground light looks a bit out of place sometimes.

A course

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-I like the new intro jump! I would move it a bit towards the spawn though so the area between A1 and A2 isnt too cramped, better flow.
-The range on the help node looks a bit short on A1, if you backpedal to see the whole jump you cant get the help text, making it harder to figure how these hints work at first.
-I find the node on A6 a bit unrelated, as the jump isnt really a strafing jump (going directly to the end in a straight line is simpler)
-I like the new crates on 6, it kind of justifies the tight space. However i'm not comfortable with the whole area from the 5-6 transition to the end of A course: it feels really cramped, if this is what you want I guess it's fine, I just personnally like to have a bit more breathing room.
-I don't like the help node on A7. Self-det is used mainly for 2 things: more distance, and easier jumping in awkward setups, since you don't need to shoot a surface. Self-det can give you higher jumps but to make it significant it requires advanced/unreliable techniques. On A7 I it's mainly the "makes it less awkward" case.

B course

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

overall: What if every time you had a pipe jump, you doubled it with a second layer of pipes next to it? Would it look better and keep the jumps as you want them? the size of these pipes just makes them look weird.
B6: thanks for removing that annoying ledge! However you forgot to remove the smoothing clip brush
B8: I like the new top part! Better flow Cool jump sequence to practice self-det.

C Course

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

C1: Yeah! I like that new little deck! really catches the eye on where you need to go and reset is a lot less awkward! you could even trim it to make the jump tighter if you want.
C3: this might sound like the exact opposite of what I told you after _b3, but now that the texture is more unified, you probably need something to hint towards that ledge (maybe a light source?)
C5: OMG YES this feels so much better than previous version. It might even be a bit too easy now, i'll give it more tries.
C6: hey a det jump is actually needed at the end now! I like it! transition room feels super cramped after though.

D course

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

D1: Yes! feels so much better and fair!
D2-3 transition still a bit weird, pretty sure I like that new start setup better for D3 though!
D4: floor is like a mirror on dx8
D5: you could maybe tweak the distance of 2nd jump/height of third jump to make this level more challenging, as it is probably the easiest level on D. I love the layout.
D6: its still annoying to hit the lower part of the vent, but that new start makes the level soooo much better. Cool level layout. since this is a transition, could be worth it in my opinion to smooth the entry in the vent.
D7: I still find the last jump a bit hard, but maybe I just need to practice it a bit more. At least the level doesnt feel as unfair now.
D8: since this is the last level of the course, you could honestly make the last jump harder! That whole metal plat might not be necessary.

Course E

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

E1: WOOH I like the new layout! Jump could maybe even be made a tiny bit harder (maybe trim the first 2 ramps so they are further from each other?).
E6: Love the new 6! Feels fair, while keeping that little fear of fucking up the last jump!
E7; as of now I still see 7 as a big pile of not fun. I'd like to see how you do the 3rd jump, haven't been able to hit it yet.
E8: Could be made a bit harder! The start might look better if it was on the same level as the floor.

[Red Dagger]

jump_pyrokinesis_b5 is hea

https://www.dropbox.com/s/528wt78hcfs07b9/jump_pyrokinesis_b5.bsp

album of screenies https://imgur.com/a/XlD4Z

This is basically the final version, posting here for any final feedback on anything and everything, though I'd especially like to know how it is performance-wise (notably at the lighthouse). If nothing needs multiple iterations then the next will be rc1

as always, thanks in advance for any feedback!

[VAVLIE]

B5 feedbacks!

Main problems for me: 2 transitions are still awkward/cramped in my opinion, and some of the new props can be a bit in the way.

A course

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A7: Ok so from what I understood, this was meant to be a level to introduce self-det. I think right now the level fails at this: for me the most reliable way to do the level is to just do a normal strafe right jump, without self-det (using self-det for height tends to be unreliable). It could be a good place to put an actual strafe level instead and let self-det for course B?

B course

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

B2: Big empty space. Maybe add junk on the floor or something
B4: I don't like how little space is left because of the boxes. Also the pipes on the left side can be in the way.
B5/7/8: We talked a bit already about the pipes, I'd definitely try with the double pipes instead of triple, and ask a few people what they prefer between double and what you had initially.
B8: The room is a bit empty, and it would be great if you could find something to justify the shape of the last set of pipes. Right now it looks like they are just floating in the air.

C course

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

C1: Should be harder! (if possible)
C3: I think the arrow and the tape are perfect to hint the ledge
C5: I think difficulty is spot on! Now the super long pipes does look weird though. It's super easy to land on the lamp above the door leading to C6, either remove it or remove collision. Also the balcony you land on looks so tiny. But I guess it would be hard to make it larger without making c5 easier?
C6 to C7 transition: one of the few transitions that still annoy me. I don't like going through the window of C6 and bonking in a wall right away. What if you removed the wall with the 7 number and tweaked the balcony? Something maybe like this https://i.imgur.com/3J12XXd.png
C8: Ok i'm confused now with what is required to make the jump since i was able to clear it with a 41 hp jump. I'll try to figure it out for if you want to make an appropriate help node.

D course

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

D2: Description is off a bit. Need to jump at the bottom.
D2 to D3: The only other transition I still find awkward and cramped. what if the end floor was on the same level as D3, you could then add fences on the edges so that the last jump stays pretty much the same?
D3: The first set of lights are not problematic for me but they might be for someone else. The first set of light after the silo is definitely in the way though!
D4: If you're hugging the wall with the ramp, it's easy to bonk on the pipes.
D5: Could be even harder! What if you pulled back the right side block so it lines up with the vent? (it would make the 2nd jump harder)
D6: I like what you did with the vents!
D:7 The jump is fine for me, allthough definitely challenging. I'd check with other people to see what they think of it, since it's by far the hardest jump in the first 4 courses (and harder than most jumps on E imo). Main problem for me is the last jump needs to be really precise because of the low ceiling, but it's a bit of a pain to experiment with timings and angles since you need to get up there first.
D:8 I'm a bit torn appart if you should smooth the door frame of the last jump or not. Having the frame in the way makes the jump more interesting in my opinion but might be frustrating to some.

E course

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

E1: Difficulty is spot on!
E6: I'm a bit confused with that new ladder, I guess you can use it to jump to the ledge, but at the same time it's a bit in the way. I like the level, although the last 2 plats looks a bit weird with the multiple layers.
E7: The pipes feel in the way of the first jump, but I think they have collisions off? Baybe the starting pad is too close to the wall? Now that I understand the timings this level is actually pretty easy. But I'm not sure if it's worth it to make it harder?
E8: A bit the same comment as for end of E6, the starting platform being on a different level than the spawn point looks a bit odd to me. Also when on the ledge you can see through the side of the floor. I've had a few instances of getting stuck in the ceiling when respawning. Might be worth making the jump harder but not sure: the first 2 jumps are super easy but the last one is harder and punishing so it might be fine like this. Also once on top if you try to jump into the wrong window you hit a tp trigger for E8, this should definitely be fixed. For the first part of 8, it could be nice to put the bottom tp trigger lower if it's not getting in the way of what's below so that when you fail you actual fall a little bit. Getting insta-teled after missing a ledge always feels weird. Actually for any part where you have levels on top of each other and had to kind of do a "cage" of triggers, i'd suggest trying to make it as wide/big as possible, again because getting insta-teled is weird.

I like the new ending I'd go ham trying to make it as pretty and rewarding as possible.

[Red Dagger]

jump_pyrokinesis_rc1 is here! It's been ages and loads of revisions since the last post here, so not really gonna list all the changes, but it's in a pretty finished state

https://tf2maps.net/downloads/pyrokinesis.7368/

[200]

It is kind of sad that with soldier/demo maps scale this level of detailing is absurd. It looks absolutely stunning, very nice touch on the lighthouse, I thought it was a sunshine prop at first glance. I don't really enjoy jumping as pyro because it's too slow and has less "relaxed jumping" flow in it, but this map is very well crafted and made me do it.

[VAVLIE]

Simply the best pyro map ever made, and by a long way. Super happy to see it finally released.

[BQE]

this map looks really awesome!  unfortunately im really struggling to figure out the basic timing of det jumping.  im struggling pretty badly to beat B4.  where should i be aiming?  whats the jump + shoot timing?  Do I need to hold crouch? 

[Red Dagger]

this map looks really awesome!  unfortunately im really struggling to figure out the basic timing of det jumping.  im struggling pretty badly to beat B4.  where should i be aiming?  whats the jump + shoot timing?  Do I need to hold crouch?

Thanks!

The map showcase does B4 at around the 50 second mark, so you can look there to see where to aim. Make sure you're holding the button to detonate the flare as well. As for timing, I generally crouch+fire a split second before jumping, but that's something you can toy with to get a good feel for.