14 reasons tempus ruins speedrans, heres how! (number 9 will SHOCK u)

[Nightin]

clickbait bois

huge problem with tempus is the complete disregard of people speedrunning OUTSIDE of tempus. by editing maps and triggers and hp and all that shit it makes it unfair for people not playing on the edited maps, thinning out competition by proxy. if we want a speedrun community that has some substance we need to get rid of arbitrary bullshit ideas and keep it simple, especially since this whole casual plugin shit is threatening to change runs it matters a lot more now that tempus has a consistent standard.

at most, if theres no intention of making these changes, tempus runs(on edited maps) shouldnt be counted in any kind of leaderboards, let alone wrs.

thx u for readin

[Bonafide]

100 & also a 1000% procent behind u

[guyyst]

There's 2 approaches a speedrun plugin like this can take:

1. Create an even and fair environment for everyone on the server(s) by getting rid of inconsitent and/or random elements, such as doors, elevators and teleport rooms.
This leads to a high level server-side competition since nobody can get an unfair advantage by having doors be opend for them.

2. Keep everything the way it originally was and gain a little bit of compareability with offline runs.


Given that offline timing is extremly unpresice going with #1 is the better way in my opinion.
And I really don't see what you mean by "editing HP", every offline run these days uses hurtme since it's just way more convenient for everybody.
Also what exactly are you referring to when you say "editing triggers"?

[Oatmeal]

at most, if theres no intention of making these changes, tempus runs(on edited maps) shouldnt be counted in any kind of leaderboards, let alone wrs.

I don't think that's gonna happen, rather the opposite. 

[Nightin]

>1. Create an even and fair environment for everyone on the server(s) by getting rid of inconsitent and/or random elements, such as doors, elevators and teleport rooms.

except there are still lvls that are there regardless of that, you either remove them all and completely change the maps or you dont remove them at all. anything else is arbitrary

>This leads to a high level server-side competition since nobody can get an unfair advantage by having doors be opend for them.

see previous msg, that can still happen. and as ive heard it has before on other #1 times

>2. Keep everything the way it originally was and gain a little bit of compareability with offline runs.

offline is the very basis of jumps, if you cant do something offline why should you be able to do it online? and more importantly why should that count as a legit run?

>
Given that offline timing is extremly unpresice going with #1 is the better way in my opinion.

it's not "extremely unprecise" at all. it can be precise to the very tick of the start and end of the run if youre willing to check that far. even if you wouldnt, the only noticeable differences would start in the hundreths of seconds territory. i'd say thats a decent margin of error regardless.

>And I really don't see what you mean by "editing HP", every offline run these days uses hurtme since it's just way more convenient for everybody.

this is more for demos. im p sure 99% of the time you cant triple sticky to prefire in offline. (and besides hurtme is kind of lame anyway, but thats a different story for a different thread :-))

>Also what exactly are you referring to when you say "editing triggers"?

shouldve been more explicit. i meant the arbitrary decisions of where maps start and end. like how 4starters courses start on the 2nd level and how a lot of maps end way too early, removing parts of runs.

[RNC1839]

There's really only 1 thing that tempus does that I really like. The way the start timer trigger works. But that's really petty and I have a way of creating it on any map so it's really not that big of a deal.

shouldve been more explicit. i meant the arbitrary decisions of where maps start and end. like how 4starters courses start on the 2nd level and how a lot of maps end way too early, removing parts of runs.

That really fucking pisses me off. I get some maps being stupid and having really dumb starts and stops but, Hexahedron, why does the timer not stop where I put the goddamn trigger to stop the goddamn timer? How hard is it to touch the last door and hit the timer stop trigger you get teleported into? I understand changing the start timer, that makes sense. But in v2 I changed the timer over to the tempus standard so if it ever gets updated on tempus there should be no reason to not use my triggers. Same thing with rnc_a4.

Also as far as times, health, and doors are concerned I really don't care, but that's just because I don't really speedrun much and when I do I just use the rocket jumper, and I do like the way demo health is handled.

[879m]

im p sure 99% of the time you cant triple sticky to prefire in offline.

It's just as easy to do it offline as it is to do it on tempus. I think the only difference is with uncharged triple prefires, which you can survive on tempus because of per-tick regen but not offline, but I might be wrong about that.

[newjuls]

im p sure 99% of the time you cant triple sticky to prefire in offline.

It's just as easy to do it offline as it is to do it on tempus. I think the only difference is with uncharged triple prefires, which you can survive on tempus because of per-tick regen but not offline, but I might be wrong about that.

I'm fairly certain that if you time it perfectly you can get it to work offline, if you tripple and before the prefire hits you the regen kicks in. But I'm not 100% certain this works because I'm awful at tripple prefires anyway I don't see why it shouldn't though.

[Rob123]

Had uni exams the past couple days, sorry for the late reply.

The first thing I should say is that Tempus wasn't designed to be the timer for all of jumping and speedrunning, and we don't plan it to be. We have a network of servers that deliver the experience that we want, and there are lots of other servers (or offline jumping) that deliver different experiences.

If you want an entirely consistent jumping experience for everyone, you will probably have to find a way to mod tf2 and do all runs offline. This isn't the solution we wanted (or know how to do), so we have an online network. Once this was established, any player that runs online is immediately disadvantaged to someone running offline, due to ping, server lag, time available to spend on a map, etc. So I don't see offline runs comparable to online runs, and it isn't something in the scope of what Tempus should achieve. Times on Tempus are meant for internal comparison, this is why we don't accept submissions of other times. I don't want a top times leaderboard that was plagued in the same way the skillsrank one was, where its times were more comparable to offline that Tempus ones are.

So with comparisons to offline jumping out of the picture, it became a question of how do we make the online jumping experience as good as possible. This was through creating better consistency (no doors, breakables, solly and demo HP regen). As for map ending zones, this has been one of the most controversial things. It was done to create consistency across the maps, you hit the final platform and your timer finishes. The aim was for all players to not have to worry about where the author has put the finish cap, what size the cap, or if there even is one? I personally believe establishing certain standards are better than simply following what has been done before for the sake of it.

As for 4starters, the course start zones are to avoid players accidentally triggering them out of order, and cancelling their runs (which I had many complaints about after they were initially zoned in the 'normal' starting positions).

As for your mention of other inconsistent levels, I don't enjoy them. Jump_aris last level comes to mind, where you have to shotgun twice to open two doors then fall and do a sync. This is a major pain online with lots of people. My approach is that i've only removed buttons/doors that are in level transitions, not levels themselves. Maybe this needs changing, I'm not sure. I think I'd prefer maps without them (granted I am guilty of one button on void), but that's a personal preference which I'm not going to make major changes based on. On the note of that, I'd like to think I have been reasonably flexible in the past with changes which have a strong opposition. For example, pre-speed limiting was something I was pushing for initially, but we did not implement because of feedback. In hindsight, it would have been a bad choice so I'm glad people spoke up.

I don't see how the casual plugin argument relates at all. If anything, having online runs which aren't comparable to offline runs makes it much harder to get away with a TAS run (this is assuming they can only be done offline, which I'm not sure has been confirmed or not).

"at most, if theres no intention of making these changes, tempus runs(on edited maps) shouldnt be counted in any kind of leaderboards, let alone wrs."

I have no idea what leaderboards you are talking about. We have internal leaderboards on all servers, and that's about it. Feel free to link the Official TF2 Jump Community Speedrunning Leaderboards™ that I'm somehow missing. Joking aside, it reiterates my point that Tempus isn't the be-all and end-all of jumping. We simply provide a network of servers with the best experience we can create. I still strongly believe there is a need for skillsrank, offline and other jumping experiences to co-exist, but only to that extent.

Apologies for the long-winded response. I get frustrated when people have the expectation of Tempus being the single, perfect saviour for all of jumping. There are too many issues, limitations and inconsistencies with TF2 to have anything like that, so we just try do our own thing the best we can.