Angled Bhops

[Exile]

this wasnt a problem with skillsrank!

[Tx_]

If you have to enter something into the console to improve runs then it should be banned. Period.

this wasnt a problem with skillsrank!

/thread

[Vexon]

So if 99% of us agree other than supercuck, why is it not an official rule yet?
Even if we can't remove it, it can be a punishable offense like freezeglitching yo
PAGING MR ROB PLZ REPLY

[Benroads]

If you have to enter something into the console to improve runs then it should be banned.

This is a pretty stupid metric to determine if something should be banned or not. You could argue that having access to fullbright on shitty dark maps would give you an advantage. Clearly Pitchdown/up is the only real issue here and since it's a client command you can't really do much about it since the server shouldn't be able to see what you have it set to.

However bshear mentioned that his new plugin (or some other plugin I can't remember exactly) could see what clients have commands set to. With this you could possibly use it to check if cl_pitchdown/up has been changed from default (89 for both) and then use that to invalidate runs. Another solution could be to disable it on a map/server level. I am fairly sure that there is a plugin that could force commands to be executed by the client.

If this is possible you could have the client execute the following commands:

cl_pitchdown 89; cl_pitchup 89; alias cl_pitchdown; alias cl_pitchup

This would set pitchdown/up to their default values and then prevent people from changing them from these, I think this would be the best solution overall since it would remove the main issue (pitchdown/up) but not interfere with anything else.  The only real issue with this is execution. Ideally it would be executed when you join Tempus servers since as far as I know there is no reason for players to have a different cl_pitchup/down value and if they did they would just need to relaunch TF2 and not join a Tempus server.

If a server cannot execute these commands easily it could always be done on a map level using a trigger_multiple (presumably at the start/spawnpoint of the map) and a point_clientcommand to do the same thing but obviously this would be somewhat pointless because as far as I know most maps likely will not have this.

Even if this stuff all happens there's still the issues of people who abused it before the rule was formally implemented. It's not exactly fair to punish them for something that wasn't against the rules when they did it but it would also allow times that are better than they should be to exist. The best solution would probably involve admins reviewing the runs and determining if they used pitchdown/up or not. Obviously this isn't the best solution because it'd only really make sense for them to review WR times because how time consuming it would be.

[Vexon]

If you have to enter something into the console to improve runs then it should be banned.

This is a pretty stupid metric to determine if something should be banned or not. You could argue that having access to fullbright on shitty dark maps would give you an advantage.

I will argue and say that is a really stupid argument. Fullbright is a graphic setting, while pitchdown actually changes physical performance in the game..

[Benroads]

If you have to enter something into the console to improve runs then it should be banned.

This is a pretty stupid metric to determine if something should be banned or not. You could argue that having access to fullbright on shitty dark maps would give you an advantage.

I will argue and say that is a really stupid argument. Fullbright is a graphic setting, while pitchdown actually changes physical performance in the game..

But you said entering something in the console that gives you an advantage (This part is debatable, specifically when stuff like graphics settings are brought up) should be banned. You enter something in the console for both of them (mat_fullbright 1 and cl_pitchdown 420.69). You could also say that commands like sensitivity,m_pitch,m_yaw have an impact on "physical performance" in the game. Either way if you want to be so absolute about that you should be a bit more clear since "banning" the use of all commands would have an overall negative impact on Tempus in my opinion.

Unrelated to above but another issue with angle bhops that I see is that you need to use an external tool to figure out the angle, I think if the bcheck plugin was updated to show angles this would remove that issue. I'm not exactly sure how hard it would be to add this, if I were to guess there's a spreadsheet like thing that has a list of all the angles and the plugin would just need to pull the information from there.

[pants]

iirc another AU server's bhop plugin can give an angle for stock. But it just spits out for uncrouched start and at near a set angle range.

That being said then its maybe possible, at least in a limited way like that.

[fishy]

i don't see how it would be hard in the slightest bit to add the angles to bcheck, and as pants said it's (maybe) already been done to an extent

tyrael already made an app that derives the angle from an entered height, literally do the same thing with the height that bcheck gives. it's not like we need to discover how to find angles, it's already been discovered. just add it in.

also i agree with benroads vexon that was a pretty broad statement, we just need to stick to the point here and go one step at a time.

[Vexon]

So if anyone wants to compete, we all need to learn the angled bhop shit? What about people who are newer? It's noob-friendly at the moment...meaning you dont need any outside help other than stock everything to get wr's. I don't understand how you are actually defending this O_O
..wtf

[fishy]

are you switching your argument mid thread vexon?

your OP was about pitchdown, verbatim: "I don't mind angled bhops, but what I do mind is the whole pitchdown command."

[Vexon]

No I'm not changing. I'm saying including the angles would never work if you just have to do it manually without pitchdown. Unless you have some marking on the map or something

[fishy]

cl_showpos 1

and if you have a problem with showpos, then make a plugin to only show the Y angle, just like we already have done with /speedo, /angle

[Sere]

No I'm not changing. I'm saying including the angles would never work if you just have to do it manually without pitchdown. Unless you have some marking on the map or something

um, no, most people use showpos, which is a console command btw.

[Vexon]

No I'm not changing. I'm saying including the angles would never work if you just have to do it manually without pitchdown. Unless you have some marking on the map or something

um, no, most people use showpos, which is a console command btw.

Then why tf is pitchdown allowed wtf

[vice]

Vexon, jump_mad is a demo map and solly for T5. And the only way to complete it is angle bhop(last level). If there are more maps like these are being made, how are we supposed to do them? Just make it T0? No one likes that man. We all want possible maps.