Angled Bhops

[HyperDan]

It's rockethop dude

[Melon]

freezeglitching only gets reported when people feel like it, or when someone specs the person doing it. noone goes through every demo, and noone ever will.

you can't seriously expect admins who don't get paid for doing this and have real jobs that they need to live to look at demos all day. aside from that, freezeglitching is much more obvious at a glance than using pitchdown.

[Vexon]

Everyone knows when someone freezeglitches because people watch runs all day, and when someone gets an insane wr people watch the demo to see how they would impriove by that amount of time. Same goes for angled bhops. Just make it a punishable offense and hopefully people will have the integrity to not do it...and if they do, someone will most likely find out.

[Superchuck]

Everyone knows when someone freezeglitches because people watch runs all day, and when someone gets an insane wr people watch the demo to see how they would impriove by that amount of time. Same goes for angled bhops. Just make it a punishable offense and hopefully people will have the integrity to not do it...and if they do, someone will most likely find out.

I still dont see why you don't like angle bhops. Pitchdown I understand, but angle bhops mostly just make long downpogos much more manageable.

[catfoosh]

I don't mind angled bhops, but what I do mind is the whole pitchdown command.

[Superchuck]

I don't mind angled bhops, but what I do mind is the whole pitchdown command.

ya, but the way he's talking is like he doesn't like angled bhops.

"Same goes for angled bhops. Just make it a punishable offense and hopefully people will have the integrity to not do it...and if they do, someone will most likely find out." - Vexon

[Vexon]

Ugh i mean pitchdown. You remove pitchdown, you remove most angled bhops anyway

[Superchuck]

Ugh i mean pitchdown. You remove pitchdown, you remove most angled bhops anyway

nop

[HyperDan]

Or we can stop arguing over something that clearly won't be accepted by the community like Rockethop vs Powerbounce. Or we could just make a vote and whatever wins is what happens.

[Mac-]

Angled bhops take all of the fun out of going for good runs to be honest, but I don't see any reason to ban them as long as they are done manually.

[catfoosh]

Or we can stop arguing over something that clearly won't be accepted by the community like Rockethop vs Powerbounce. Or we could just make a vote and whatever wins is what happens.

99% of the people here hate pitchdown

[John]

There is a significant difference between deciding on a name of a rocket jump + bhop vs. a console command which will trivialize angled bhops and become a standard of speedruns.

[Shunix]

If you have to enter something into the console to improve runs then it should be banned.

This is a pretty stupid metric to determine if something should be banned or not. You could argue that having access to fullbright on shitty dark maps would give you an advantage. Clearly Pitchdown/up is the only real issue here and since it's a client command you can't really do much about it since the server shouldn't be able to see what you have it set to.

However bshear mentioned that his new plugin (or some other plugin I can't remember exactly) could see what clients have commands set to. With this you could possibly use it to check if cl_pitchdown/up has been changed from default (89 for both) and then use that to invalidate runs. Another solution could be to disable it on a map/server level. I am fairly sure that there is a plugin that could force commands to be executed by the client.

If this is possible you could have the client execute the following commands:

cl_pitchdown 89; cl_pitchup 89; alias cl_pitchdown; alias cl_pitchup

This would set pitchdown/up to their default values and then prevent people from changing them from these, I think this would be the best solution overall since it would remove the main issue (pitchdown/up) but not interfere with anything else.  The only real issue with this is execution. Ideally it would be executed when you join Tempus servers since as far as I know there is no reason for players to have a different cl_pitchup/down value and if they did they would just need to relaunch TF2 and not join a Tempus server.

If a server cannot execute these commands easily it could always be done on a map level using a trigger_multiple (presumably at the start/spawnpoint of the map) and a point_clientcommand to do the same thing but obviously this would be somewhat pointless because as far as I know most maps likely will not have this.

Even if this stuff all happens there's still the issues of people who abused it before the rule was formally implemented. It's not exactly fair to punish them for something that wasn't against the rules when they did it but it would also allow times that are better than they should be to exist. The best solution would probably involve admins reviewing the runs and determining if they used pitchdown/up or not. Obviously this isn't the best solution because it'd only really make sense for them to review WR times because how time consuming it would be.

Nice false equivalence 

[John]

If you have to enter something into the console to improve runs then it should be banned.

This is a pretty stupid metric to determine if something should be banned or not. You could argue that having access to fullbright on shitty dark maps would give you an advantage. Clearly Pitchdown/up is the only real issue here and since it's a client command you can't really do much about it since the server shouldn't be able to see what you have it set to.

However bshear mentioned that his new plugin (or some other plugin I can't remember exactly) could see what clients have commands set to. With this you could possibly use it to check if cl_pitchdown/up has been changed from default (89 for both) and then use that to invalidate runs. Another solution could be to disable it on a map/server level. I am fairly sure that there is a plugin that could force commands to be executed by the client.

If this is possible you could have the client execute the following commands:

cl_pitchdown 89; cl_pitchup 89; alias cl_pitchdown; alias cl_pitchup

This would set pitchdown/up to their default values and then prevent people from changing them from these, I think this would be the best solution overall since it would remove the main issue (pitchdown/up) but not interfere with anything else.  The only real issue with this is execution. Ideally it would be executed when you join Tempus servers since as far as I know there is no reason for players to have a different cl_pitchup/down value and if they did they would just need to relaunch TF2 and not join a Tempus server.

If a server cannot execute these commands easily it could always be done on a map level using a trigger_multiple (presumably at the start/spawnpoint of the map) and a point_clientcommand to do the same thing but obviously this would be somewhat pointless because as far as I know most maps likely will not have this.

Even if this stuff all happens there's still the issues of people who abused it before the rule was formally implemented. It's not exactly fair to punish them for something that wasn't against the rules when they did it but it would also allow times that are better than they should be to exist. The best solution would probably involve admins reviewing the runs and determining if they used pitchdown/up or not. Obviously this isn't the best solution because it'd only really make sense for them to review WR times because how time consuming it would be.

Nice false equivalence

Nice fallacy fallacy


ok time for my opinion:

angled bhops are fine because they're part of the game itself (you look in one angle, u get bhop). they also take a lot of preciseness to do because every time you fail the jump you need to realign yourself correctly. cl_pitchdown is not ok because it removes this restraint on angled bhops. it makes it just a bhop because the angle you will be looking at is going to be fixed as long as u pull ur mouse downwards.

[Vexon]

Ugh i mean pitchdown. You remove pitchdown, you remove most angled bhops anyway

nop

Unless you memorize a certain spot to aim after hitting a tele, then yeah.. It would be much harder unless there was a marker there or something.