Angled Bhops

[vice]

Okay, this is my final suggestion. Pitchdown, ban. Angled bhops stay. Showpos stay too.
I don't see why angled bhops without pitchdown is not allowed in map runs, I think of it as a strat that can be manually used. Nevertheless, it still takes time to do angled bhops and still require skill. Yes, pitchdown needs to be banned cuz it is ultimately GAY.
To conclude this, only pitchdown should be banned.

[Exile]

http://jump.tf/forum/index.php/topic,1742.0.html

[vice]

http://jump.tf/forum/index.php/topic,1742.0.html

I 100% agree with Boshy's reply on that. I don't want cheats to be removed though, cuz I want fullbright man, everyone wants fullbright..

[Boshy]

Since most of the wallpogo is usually on the demo maps anyway, imo it's fair to use angled bhops in speedruns as a strat to skip it (angled bhops are more consistent time wise, you always take exactly 3-5 secs+time to fall, as opposed to wallpogo where you can NEVER be consistent at how fast you do it every time), but pitchdown just makes it so you don't get punished for messing it up (which is obviously dumb). Otherwise, without this strat we will have like 2-3 people having all the wrs on wallpogo maps ever because everyone else sucks at doing wallpogo fast tbh (or someone can just grind for an hour and get a random bhop instead to save those 10 secs!!!!!!!!!). So I see angled bhops as a strat to make it more fun for people who are slow at wallpogo to speedrun wallpogo maps.

[Vexon]

If Rob said it shouldn't be used why is there no official rule on it and why is chuck abusing it 

Edit: I'm talking about pitchdown

[Shunix]

I dont understand how anyone can justify using console commands to cheat by saying the wallpogo is boring....

grinding speedruns is boring that doesnt mean its ok to cheat them lol

[Superchuck]

Since this whole argument started because of me, I'm here to set the record straight and apologize.

I've been using cl_pitchdown for a couple of months ever since I knew how to find angle bhops. At the time of using pitchdown, it wasn't against any of the rules so I continued to use it even after people such as Boshy had told me Rob said not to do it. I continued on since it wasn't officially against the rules. Because of me doing this in getting some wrs and top times, it has escalated to this heated discussion. I never wanted it to be like this, but I guess I just wanted to get the points on tempus (which is dying out really quick). I hope Vexon and some others can forgive me, and if needed, I can give out the whole list of my times using pitchdown.

TL;DR - I started this, never wanted it to get this bad. Sorry

[Melon]

never apologize it makes you look weak

plus you really dont need to apologize for internet points

[.flac]

If you have to enter something into the console to improve runs then it should be banned.

This is a pretty stupid metric to determine if something should be banned or not. You could argue that having access to fullbright on shitty dark maps would give you an advantage. Clearly Pitchdown/up is the only real issue here and since it's a client command you can't really do much about it since the server shouldn't be able to see what you have it set to.

However bshear mentioned that his new plugin (or some other plugin I can't remember exactly) could see what clients have commands set to. With this you could possibly use it to check if cl_pitchdown/up has been changed from default (89 for both) and then use that to invalidate runs. Another solution could be to disable it on a map/server level. I am fairly sure that there is a plugin that could force commands to be executed by the client.

If this is possible you could have the client execute the following commands:

cl_pitchdown 89; cl_pitchup 89; alias cl_pitchdown; alias cl_pitchup

This would set pitchdown/up to their default values and then prevent people from changing them from these, I think this would be the best solution overall since it would remove the main issue (pitchdown/up) but not interfere with anything else.  The only real issue with this is execution. Ideally it would be executed when you join Tempus servers since as far as I know there is no reason for players to have a different cl_pitchup/down value and if they did they would just need to relaunch TF2 and not join a Tempus server.

If a server cannot execute these commands easily it could always be done on a map level using a trigger_multiple (presumably at the start/spawnpoint of the map) and a point_clientcommand to do the same thing but obviously this would be somewhat pointless because as far as I know most maps likely will not have this.

Even if this stuff all happens there's still the issues of people who abused it before the rule was formally implemented. It's not exactly fair to punish them for something that wasn't against the rules when they did it but it would also allow times that are better than they should be to exist. The best solution would probably involve admins reviewing the runs and determining if they used pitchdown/up or not. Obviously this isn't the best solution because it'd only really make sense for them to review WR times because how time consuming it would be.

Nice false equivalence

Where is the false equivalence exactly? Smh at kids throwing around fallacy names without even understanding what they mean just to look oh so logical and smart -.-

[Dr. Heinz]

Just ban pitchdown, manual angle bhops are fine. It's actually pretty hard to allign in my experience.

[Gorge004]

Now that this argument is over, can we rename angle bhop to powerchucker?

plz

[gibus]

Now that this argument is over, can we rename angle bhop to powerchucker?

plz

how about "superhop"

[catfoosh]

Yes this give angle bhops an awful no meaning nonsense name like powerbounce

[Vexon]

Until Rob or Jayess come in and make it an official rule, it isn't over. We let it end without it being official last time and people have been abusing it since then. It needs to be fully addressed, or it will just happen again down the line.