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Getawhale RTV bully EXPOSED

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Dr Gains

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I think its time to increase the rank needed to rtv
500pts beginner, rank 1000 advanced tbh..


Ladyboog

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I think its time to increase the rank needed to rtv
500pts beginner, rank 1000 advanced tbh..
Esquire is still shit, make that noble.


Dr Gains

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Esquire is still shit, make that noble.
Esquire still knows what wanting to finish a map for points is like... A rank 1000 still knows better. :/


fishy

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I think its time to increase the rank needed to rtv
500pts beginner, rank 1000 advanced tbh..

This is good.
I can do something super ez like a shitty bonus and still be able to rtv off maps. Should have a point cap limit, not just a rank
5:01 PM - john | jump.tf: 👌


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getawhale

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Hello!

Someone brought this thread to my attention

Felt the need to come and explain a bit more. If you watched the entire exchange and read what I was typing in chat, you may have already taken this from watching.

I understand what the issue is, a great deal actually. I spoke with truktruk following this whole exchange, and I know you like him. People come on servers, new idiots, and they RTV to dumb fuckin maps and don't know what they're doing and don't know the maps. You've been on a jump for a long time, and they come and fuck up your run to RTV to some idiot map that they can't even do, then they leave and it's all for nothing. I can understand that, and it sucks.

This situation was a little different from that. My problem was mostly with how idiotically this person was arguing, tbh, and I'd be happy to hear from him in person but I know that won't happen. He was not using those points at all. His points were more like "I'm a jumper, this is what I do" and he was sort of espousing this whole idea of "I'm a high ranked guy so just listen to me kid" or that he was working hard and others weren't.

I had issues with his arguments. If he had just explained right away "Listen this happens all the time, people come and RTV shit and don't know what they're doing, I'm not saying you're an idiot" then it might have been a little different. "That's just how it is", "I'm working hard and you're not", "I'm a jumper" and reasons like this are just childish and show he wasn't interested in an actual discussion. That's the whole reason the arguing went on as long as it did. RTV etiquette is fine and I respect that, but.. he had no answers to my theoretical situations of.. what if you stayed on the server for 3 hours and wanted to extend that long? Is that cool? 5 hours?

I should end the post because I know it's probably useless posting this at all. If any of you would like to discuss it further with me, though, reach out to me on Steam and we can do it. If you feel you know me as a person after watching one clip of my stream, that's fine. I just got back from Europe and maybe I met someone that you know - maybe you can check with them to get a report of whether I'm entitled or elitist in real life, or if I'm a genuine nice dude who got frustrated with this one guy. http://steamcommunity.com/id/getawhale/

<3

(And no, I'm not a fantastic jumper and don't claim to be)


fishy

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Hello, Getawhale. Allow me to preface this with a bit of an apology for my insults directed at you. A bit harsh, all things considered lol

I can confidently speak for many when I say that our problems with this stream started with you telling Flux to "learn to jump buddy" because he didn't want to be voted off of the last jump on a relatively hard map, of which the last jump is at least twice as hard as the rest of the map. Meanwhile, you were stuck on an easier jump, complaining about the map yourself. Bit of tasty hypocrisy there.

They continued when you decided you didn't like Flux because he was "talking down to you" by explaining the basic idea of not RTVing people off of the last jump, especially if they ask, and even more especially if they have been there a while. You seem to have taken that as a personal attack because he claimed it was common courtesy.

As soon as you decided you didn't like Flux, you repeated the same phrase, "slippery-slope argument*," over and over, while largely ignoring any points Flux was attempting to make. You have to take something into consideration, you are very well accustomed to being put on the spot, being a popular streamer and caster. Flux is just a dude on a jump server, it's not exactly out of the ordinary for him to stumble on some words while you're sitting there berating him for using a "slippery-slope argument*" to back his claim.

Another note, your post even here is extremely condescending. Calling any points he attempted to make childish, claiming he had no interest in an actual discussion. The thing is, he didn't need to have an actual discussion with you. You ignored the point at hand, that RTVing someone off of a map is extremely dickish, just to nitpick at his method of argument. If you would have slowed and calmed down, you probably could have gotten the information that you got out of Truktruk out of Flux, but you decided you didn't like him, so you didn't.

I won't and don't claim to know you personally, but what I do know is that this entire situation was handled extremely poorly on your end, as the streamer.

*I put it in quotes because I don't feel that it was a slippery-slope argument. I just think you were upset that you were asked not to RTV and you didn't want to play the map.


John

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3h10m - flux was like "please extend i'm on last" and then you decide to throw a fit when half the people on the server don't want to leave?? "fuckin bye" but you don't leave

3h11m - "are these your alts?" nice meme

3h15m - while you were spending your time looking for another server flux actually beat the map and was willing to rtv because he was done lmao. flux also says that you should let people who are running the map for a while finish or stop... which is perfectly reasonable but you just dismiss him completely "don't talk down to me please" hello?? don't talk down to HIM thanks.

if you're in the last 25% of the map people should extend. it's not a slippery slope at all.

3h18m - "this guy thinks he right but he's not." what about you? do you automatically assume you're in the right when at least half the server thought to extend?

3h19m - why is the last jump on the map so important that people should extend? do you read what you write because it's literally the last jump on the map so you can get a player record and points. checkpoints don't give you shit

3h20m - you were correct to call to "i'm a jumper" irrelevant to the discussion at hand

3h21m - "i can see nothing wrong" with joining a server and rtving immediately when other people have been potentially trying to beat a map (truktruk already discussed this with you so i'm not going to continue on this). "nothing can will get through to you" lol same. "common courtesy should apply to everyone" yes congrats you are correct but generally speaking extend is courteous while rtv is not.

3h22m - streamer privilege?

3h23m - "your arguments are so crazy and wrong" lol okay you say that buddy. i suggest you "listen to yourself"

3h2xm - at this point you're reusing arguments and i'm not going to bother retyping shit

all your steam viewers were defending you in the server and on chat but majority of them don't even know what they're talking about because they've never experienced the "i'm on last and i got rtv'd off so now i have to go through the map yet again" situation because majority of them can't get to last on a t3/t4 map. the voting system is there for a reason. if people continue to ve and not rtv then YOU should leave and stop complaining. the voters have already decided what is going to happen so it's not like anything is going to change.

a majority of fluxplus's arguments were perfectly sound because he was a jumper on a speedrun-oriented jump server. maybe if you were on a jumpacademy server his arguments could have been nullified through the usage of save and teleport. but he wasn't.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 04:22:18 PM by John »


Oatmeal

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You can take rtv etiquette too far too. Waiting for people to finish runs is the polite thing to do, yeah, but it's not a law or something like that. And politeness has it's limits, you don't have to wait for a guy to finish a two hour long run on an easy map if the server is full of other players who want to change maps.

But it's also not cool to tell other players that they have rtv just because you personally want a different map. It's not your server, you are not more important than any other players regardless of who you are. Just be the smarter guy and join a different server instead of getting into long winded arguments in the chat. If you want a tempus server for yourself, then play at 4am in the morning or something. That goes for both impatient people and people who want to do long ass runs.

Personally I think this entire discussion is much drama about nothing.


John

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That goes for both impatient people and people who want to do long ass runs.
Personally for me I don't think 45 minutes is really that long of a time for a t4 map for most people. If the times go deep into hours 1hr+ then yeah it'd make sense to rtv off of the beginner server or something. Psi has been running claustro and lion for like the past couple of weeks and he's been in the 2-3hr zone+ every time. People in adv do respect people running a map for hours because it's hard to stay focused for that long.

also the voting system exists (even with its faults) especially on the open-vote beginner server. i have rarely seen a map on the beginner server last longer than an hour.


FLUX+

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Hello!

Someone brought this thread to my attention

Felt the need to come and explain a bit more. If you watched the entire exchange and read what I was typing in chat, you may have already taken this from watching.

I understand what the issue is, a great deal actually. I spoke with truktruk following this whole exchange, and I know you like him. People come on servers, new idiots, and they RTV to dumb fuckin maps and don't know what they're doing and don't know the maps. You've been on a jump for a long time, and they come and fuck up your run to RTV to some idiot map that they can't even do, then they leave and it's all for nothing. I can understand that, and it sucks.

This situation was a little different from that. My problem was mostly with how idiotically this person was arguing, tbh, and I'd be happy to hear from him in person but I know that won't happen. He was not using those points at all. His points were more like "I'm a jumper, this is what I do" and he was sort of espousing this whole idea of "I'm a high ranked guy so just listen to me kid" or that he was working hard and others weren't.

I had issues with his arguments. If he had just explained right away "Listen this happens all the time, people come and RTV shit and don't know what they're doing, I'm not saying you're an idiot" then it might have been a little different. "That's just how it is", "I'm working hard and you're not", "I'm a jumper" and reasons like this are just childish and show he wasn't interested in an actual discussion. That's the whole reason the arguing went on as long as it did. RTV etiquette is fine and I respect that, but.. he had no answers to my theoretical situations of.. what if you stayed on the server for 3 hours and wanted to extend that long? Is that cool? 5 hours?

I should end the post because I know it's probably useless posting this at all. If any of you would like to discuss it further with me, though, reach out to me on Steam and we can do it. If you feel you know me as a person after watching one clip of my stream, that's fine. I just got back from Europe and maybe I met someone that you know - maybe you can check with them to get a report of whether I'm entitled or elitist in real life, or if I'm a genuine nice dude who got frustrated with this one guy. http://steamcommunity.com/id/getawhale/

<3

(And no, I'm not a fantastic jumper and don't claim to be)

Well hello,

It seems as though you're claiming that your issue was with how I was speaking and not the actual problem at hand. Allow me to clarify on some of the things I was saying.

First off I explained right off the bat why I wanted to extend and that I was on the last jump off the map, assuming that you understood jumping etiquette. When I found out that you did not, I went on to try and explain why it is that we let other jumpers finish when they're really close to beating a map.  Maybe I didn't do an excellent job explaining it but I did my best to show it in a logical, straight forward way.

It soon became apparent that you were not going to understand why beating a map would be important to me or anyone else. So I then showed my rank and said "I'm a jumper" "This is what I do". This was not meant to be a taunt or to diminish you or anyone else. I was just trying to show that I put a lot of time into jumping and it's something that matters to me. I was also not trying to say that you were some how lesser for not jumping as much as I do. Maybe I was jumping to conclusions by saying that jumping doesn't matter for you as much as it does for me, sorry if that's the case.

When I said I was "working hard", I never said at any point that you were not working hard. You just made that false assumption. I understand that all jumpers are at different places in their jumping and some people have to try hard on the first jump, that's totally okay. Not really sure why you went on to mock me for saying I was working hard, seems like a pretty reasonable thing to say.

At one point I asked "why not just leave the server and go to another map?" You then flipped the question back on me. I think it should be pretty obvious that if you join a server and there's already someone on it on last that they get the right of way in who leaves the server. What I mean is, I'm on last, almost finished with the map, and if I leave then all the progress I've had on the map is gone and I have to rerun all the jumps again, something that takes a lot of time and I would really rather not do. You just joined the server, if you leave to go to another jump server, you don't lose anything really, and you get to go do a map you'd rather be on while I finish.

As far as the slippery slope argument goes, there's no clear cut rules on when it's okay to move on from map, but it's generally accepted that if someones in the last few jumps of a map and is still making an effort, you let them finish. If you can't accept waiting some time for someone else to finish a map, then reread the paragraph above this one. I'm not here to tell you how to live your life, but god help you if you don't have at least a little bit of patience elsewhere in life. 

After a while I figured that this was more an issue of not wanting to bore your stream viewers than anything else. I guess I can understand that since streaming is something you like to do and the viewers are what make it possible. But in this case, you were doing that at the cost of another person. Even though you kept calling me selfish and childish, it seems as though you were the one more fitting of these words.

Also, the rtv system works by seeing what the majority of people want. The two times the rtvs extended the map, more than half the server must have voted to extend, and it sure wasn't just you and me on the server. Hell, I bet the half that voted to leave were mostly or all just your stream viewers, basically an extension of you. So which one of us was closer to having alts vote for us??

Thanks,
FLUXplus
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 04:45:49 PM by FLUX+ »
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