jump_bonus

[Sere]

Ok, some of you probably have noticed the tempus messages about benroads2/bonus being taken down due to an exploit involving bumper cars. I finally figured out how to remove bumpercars tempus-side; please don't put them in any more maps.

Now, removing bumpercars might have made those 2 jumps easier/harder, and changed the time required to do each by about a second+/-, leaving us with a few questions I need to answer before jump_bonus is put back on.

-Should the current records be wiped or not?  (There are currently 11 runs 9s/3d, wrs 9:44.187 and 8:15:163 respectively. Neither one is flawless, both can be improved even if the reworked levels are now slower.)
-Another option would be to wipe all current times, and make the map 13 separate bonuses instead
-Or should the map be removed entirely? (The map is near-universally despised, and wiping the 11 times would be relatively easy)

I want to hear your opinions before I do anything. Since they are the one's most affected by this decision, I will weight the opinions of the people with runs more heavily: Boshy(don't wipe or remove the map), Superchuck(don't wipe), Larry, Tyr(don't wipe), Starkie(don't wipe), Gorge004, Nevos, Vice, YmirIV(don't wipe), Kucino, Zike1017(dont wipe), and coloN(don't wipe)

edit: since some of the people responded to me by steam, i edited their opinions in by their names

[Gorge004]

I'm curious whats the jump now. For demo, it was just a crouch double, and for solly you had to do the glitch to have your rocket launher out in the car. Even if it wasn't very hard to do, it wasn't 100% consistent, so how can that new jump be slower then something rng based..If it's just a pogo to catch now, that's probably faster and easier then the previous jump.

Demo time wouldnt be affected at all, no point in wiping them imo. (assuming it's still just a crouch double from the start). Anyway jump 4 and last are the only hard ones for demo, would be stupid to wipe them.

For solly, if it's pogo to catch I say keep the times, new times would be better anyway. Even if it's slighlty harder I don't think it would affects the times that much. The time you had to spend getting the glitch then getting the bhop would probably be the time you will now spend trying to beat the new consistent jump, assuming it's consistent lol.

[John]

make them all bonuses because that was the original intent of the map  (to flood the tempus point system with a shitton of bonus points to ruin gamers)
having soldier have regen on all jumps makes jumps like last actually doable, but makes other jumps in the map easier than intended iirc (some jumps had an ammo limit i think. not too sure on this one).

[catking00]

As long as the carts weren't being used in jumps where you weren't normally supposed to have them, I don't see leaving carts in as a problem. We don't ban other exploits like regen abuse, water, bounces, edgebugs, jumpbugs, etc. It wouldn't even take any effort to get rid of these exploits in all future maps, as well as it's possible to remove them in all current maps. Carts are a part of the jumps, so if people want to abuse the game's mechanics they should be allowed. They aren't utilizing any commands (correct me if I'm wrong on this), nor are they breaking any rules. Even if it's rng-based, that's not a problem. Plenty of runs in the past have relied upon random bounces, as well as having a ramp at the end of water will stop you randomly - yet these mechanics are still in the game and allowed, without anybody even questioning them.

As for wiping the times, they shouldn't be penalized for utilizing what was available at the time, especially if their times can still be beaten.

[Sere]

As long as the carts weren't being used in jumps where you weren't normally supposed to have them, I don't see leaving carts in as a problem. We don't ban other exploits like regen abuse, water, bounces, edgebugs, jumpbugs, etc. It wouldn't even take any effort to get rid of these exploits in all future maps, as well as it's possible to remove them in all current maps. Carts are a part of the jumps, so if people want to abuse the game's mechanics they should be allowed. They aren't utilizing any commands (correct me if I'm wrong on this), nor are they breaking any rules. Even if it's rng-based, that's not a problem. Plenty of runs in the past have relied upon random bounces, as well as having a ramp at the end of water will stop you randomly - yet these mechanics are still in the game and allowed, without anybody even questioning them.

As for wiping the times, they shouldn't be penalized for utilizing what was available at the time, especially if their times can still be beaten.

I was somewhat vague on the nature of the bug in the post; its not that i think bumpercars are rng-based or something, its that there was a bug involving them that basically allowed you to noclip with the timer on; someone had a 1 minute wr that I wiped on the map before it was disabled.

They aren't coming back.

[879m]

Change the map to all bonuses, that way the soldier jumps aren't ruined by the regen needed for my jump.

[Benroads]

I personally think the map should be separated into a bunch of bonuses (Original intent of the map) and I think that the bumper car glitch is in the same category as stuff like Freezeglitching and Pitchdown. Personally I think it'd be ever easier to check for since its likely to produce significantly faster time as well as there is literally no way to say it was not a cheat (I've heard arguments about pitchdown like "hey maybe he just got the angle really really fast"). Also the fact that it is (Currently) only on two maps makes it even easier.

As for the actual jumps, the system I used to force out primary doesn't seem to work on Tempus (Likely blocking point_clientcommand) but if they were to be readded (Or for some reason you wanted to play it offline and the system did not work) you should be able to bind something to "use tf_weapon_rocketlauncher" and it should have the same effect as the trigger that I had setup. I'm not sure exactly what is the issue with the rocket shooter jump since the shooter jump on benroads2 functions correctly.

[Gorge004]

As long as the carts weren't being used in jumps where you weren't normally supposed to have them, I don't see leaving carts in as a problem. We don't ban other exploits like regen abuse, water, bounces, edgebugs, jumpbugs, etc. It wouldn't even take any effort to get rid of these exploits in all future maps, as well as it's possible to remove them in all current maps. Carts are a part of the jumps, so if people want to abuse the game's mechanics they should be allowed. They aren't utilizing any commands (correct me if I'm wrong on this), nor are they breaking any rules. Even if it's rng-based, that's not a problem. Plenty of runs in the past have relied upon random bounces, as well as having a ramp at the end of water will stop you randomly - yet these mechanics are still in the game and allowed, without anybody even questioning them.

As for wiping the times, they shouldn't be penalized for utilizing what was available at the time, especially if their times can still be beaten.

ye theres an exploit with them. When you enter one and try to spec someone, your player model would like stick to the player you're trying to spec. That player can noclip through the map and you have your timer running.

[Boshy]

No point in wiping already existing times, but I would prefer the map to be completely removed anyway

[Xtra]

let's start off by reminding you all boshy is a gay furry
and jump_bonus is rather interesting but not as a linear map, solly jumps ruin it for demo and vice versa, wipe runs and make it separate bonuses

[pants]

Radical idea (but probably retarded).

Sort it into two courses, one for soldier and one for demo. Put whatever is overall easier first. Might sort some of the regen/balancing shit without having it entirely bonuses.

[vice]

Only wipe ze's run for bonus and my wr for benroads2 b7. I don't suggest wiping the times, altho if the decision to make them to seperate bonuses is made, Im okay with it. Id prefer not wiping times tho. As what benroads said, the bumper car glitch should be similar to freezeglitching and pitchdown. So Id say dont wipe the times, and whoever cheats using bumper car should be penalized(not counting ze and me)

[Xtra]

Radical idea (but probably retarded).

Sort it into two courses, one for soldier and one for demo. Put whatever is overall easier first. Might sort some of the regen/balancing shit without having it entirely bonuses.

that's why I love you pants. I support this

[Starkie]

dont reset my time...

[Tyrael]

Is it not possible to fix the bug in the spec command? Could removecond 82 be used on players before adding them to spec, or something similar?

There's no reason to remove the map, there are worse maps on Tempus and no one is forced to play them.

After trying 8 and 12 without the bumper cars, 8 seems a bit harder (since the ramp doesn't slide very well) and 12 is a bit easier (since you don't need to time the rl swap and bounce in the car). I don't think the times need to be wiped in terms of how hard it is now.

I'm more in favour of leaving it as it is (full map run) and leaving the times. I don't really mind that much though if my time is wiped.