realtalk 2.0

[Ladyboog]

Better point system please, like ksf, i dont know??



I got kinda lazy while making the topic sry

[plep]

Lock this before it's too late

[Dr. Heinz]

How does the current point system work??
You get points for completing something and also extra if you're in the top 10 right??

How does the ksf system work??

[John]

ksf you get points for each "stage" done if you're not running a linear map

depending on the group you're in when you finish the map (e.g. top 25%, top 50%) you will get points related to that group
which is also to say that if you get kicked out of top 25% you will lose the extra points from 25% so you only have the 50% group bonus points

[Ladyboog]

The points you get are not only based on the map's tier and whether you get in top 10 or not, but also on the time you get on that map.

For example, if your rank is #52 on jump_abc, then you will get more points than someone who got rank #2243 on jump_abc.
To make things easier for everyone, ranks on a map are divided into several groups (for example, poop tier is from #9999 to #1000). If your time is #999 on that map, then you will get points according to poop+ tier, and not poop tier (which is good, because you get more points).

[scotch]

Yes, tiers are inherently flawed. There may be improvements to the point system in the future.

[catfoosh]

tier based points should be removed for toptimes. It's nonsense that a really hard to wr t2 map gives like no points.

tomsinisters point model was great. I don't remember it at all tho

[generic]

I would like to just mention that there are some gamers that despite not having jumped as much as others, will go on a map and play it until its done, regardless of how long it takes. For example; the current last time on aviator, which is 6 hours or so. He isn't necessarily a t5 jumper yet, but he still completed it. I'm sure that you could go about it where jumpers on the map's level have incentive to get a better time, yet gamers that may find it challenging still get suitably rewarded for their effort. This is kinda what I like about the current system though, at least from a noob perspective. It feels like you get suitably rewarded for completion. tt could probably use some work, but that sounds like quite a bit of effort tbh. Dunno. Also I am quite tired when writing this, so i will probably come back tomorrow and cringe at what I just wrote...

[scotch]

Well theoretically a map that is harder should also have less completions, which would be incentive to try harder maps.

[Mario]

I agree a better points system is needed.

1. As catfoosh said, getting tts on t2/3 maps is just as hard as getting tts on t5/6 maps since way more people run easy maps. Tiers are irrelevant for tts and should not have any effect on points.

2. Currently getting 11th is treated the same as getting last. Being 1 second off a tt spot is not the same as getting a 3hr time on a map. I think the top 10%/25%/50% (numbers can be adjusted obviously) solution sounds good, although there are probably better ways of doing it.

3. Giving completion/tt points for each level/stage like in ksf is a terrible idea imo. Every level would turn into what bonuses currently are - setstart/telesync triple or something to the end which is more a test of grinding rather than consistency or skill.

Overall I think changes like this would give people more incentive to speedrun/improve times (which is what tempus is supposed to be about?) and less reason to grind maps out of people's skill level for 6hrs or whatever  .

[catfoosh]

Can we page tomsinster in here or bshear or someone that was working on the intergalic point system??

I think the way it worked was:
1. giving completion points that are relative people have beat the map
2. Giving tt points in a exponential decrease like tempus (without the tiers) but not suddenly cutting the points to 0 at rank 11

Using the amount of people who have beaten the map as a judge for completion points makes tiers irrelevant for completion points and tt points really has no need for tiers at all

This system really gives incentive to beating harder maps and grinding times for worse players

[nolem]

So I had been working with them on the project (not specifically on the point stuff) but I was familiar with what they were trying to do.

They had no tt system and just used a percentile based system for time-based points. I'm not sure that getting rid of tt is necessary, it's just the way they did it - as long as people outside of the top ten receive points based on the time of their run and not just completion it'll be fine.

For completion, the ultimate idea was what catfoosh said - the more people who have beaten the map, the less points you get for completion. I think that this is a really good idea, and my only concern with it was that shitty maps that nobody likes to play would start getting farmed more because they are worth more than better maps of the same difficulty. Not sure what the perfect solution is but I definitely like a dynamic completion based point system over strict tiers.

[Boshy]

JuSt FEEd me mOre FUcking Points I'm ADdICteD holy shiT HELP

[gibus]

For completion, the ultimate idea was what catfoosh said - the more people who have beaten the map, the less points you get for completion. I think that this is a really good idea, and my only concern with it was that shitty maps that nobody likes to play would start getting farmed more because they are worth more than better maps of the same difficulty. Not sure what the perfect solution is but I definitely like a dynamic completion based point system over strict tiers.

i dont think this is a good idea because older maps will always have the most completions

maybe it could work if you have like a ratio of completions to attempts (an attempt being a player staying on the map with timer active for at least x minutes) but that would require a lot more effort than just using the #completions which is already tracked

[fishy]

just move top ten to top 25, done easy