Point System Discussion

[Kattocate]

65% penalty to offclass, otherwise keep everything as is. someone will complain that beef gives too little points compared to say finite but ill say my stubborn opinion: you chose to play beef and not finite so so be it

[Shunix]

65% penalty to offclass, otherwise keep everything as is. someone will complain that beef gives too little points compared to say finite but ill say my stubborn opinion: you chose to play beef and not finite so so be it

can't ur stubborn opinion apply to offclass runs aswell? you chose not to grind demo maps as soldier so so be it.

the same issues from offclass runs apply to other maps aswell, it doesnt make sense for a garbage map like allstars to be worth the same as an actual good map that people want to play, the current system rewards mindlessly playing garbage for points more than quality of runs, and it would be good to change that.

[Syphilis]

I like completion points. They are the only thing newbies can have fun with since they suck at running. They were pretty addictive for me starting out.

Idk if amount of completions is a good metric for competitiveness of a map, maybe how close all the times are to each other? Also I think difficulty should play a role at least a little, since generally the better you are the more harder maps you can speedrun meaning you deserve more points probably. But also that might not matter for wr and the top few times since they'll all be top players probably, so maybe approaching the top few, difficulty should matter less and less.

[Shunix]

I like completion points. They are the only thing newbies can have fun with since they suck at running. They were pretty addictive for me starting out.

Idk if amount of completions is a good metric for competitiveness of a map, maybe how close all the times are to each other? Also I think difficulty should play a role at least a little, since generally the better you are the more harder maps you can speedrun meaning you deserve more points probably. But also that might not matter for wr and the top few times since they'll all be top players probably, so maybe approaching the top few, difficulty should matter less and less.

completion points, if they exist should give a miniscule amount compared to timed runs, and imo shouldnt exist at all, but ideally all runs should still recieve points; eg a rank 1000 on beef still gives a few points and a rank 700 would give even more than that, which would be even more fun for new players.

i also think that harder map times giving more points doesnt really make sense... most tier 6 tts are easier runs to get than lower tier tts in my experience and at the very least you can't really compare the two; beef wr is MUCH harder than baqu wr for example

[hex]

I like completion points. They are the only thing newbies can have fun with since they suck at running. They were pretty addictive for me starting out.

Idk if amount of completions is a good metric for competitiveness of a map, maybe how close all the times are to each other? Also I think difficulty should play a role at least a little, since generally the better you are the more harder maps you can speedrun meaning you deserve more points probably. But also that might not matter for wr and the top few times since they'll all be top players probably, so maybe approaching the top few, difficulty should matter less and less.

completion will still exist as a percentage that you can farm if you enjoy completion, if you care about rank instead then you can either improve your times (from 100th to 50th gives a chunk of points) or set decent times on new maps. the issue people have now is that you have people like soup with over 200 records, 150 tts, and yet he's only drank 10 because he has 22% completion.

generally a run should give you more points if it's better, less if its worse. the difficulty of a map doesn't really mean that a run is better or worse so it doesn't make sense to get more points for running a harder map (tt an airpogo map in 15 minutes vs grind tt on beef). i dont really know what a better solution than george's formula would be. hard coding map exceptions or using players ranks both sound very sloppy imo

[cowboyana]

at least with demo jumping, reeros initial point when he reopened this seemed absolutely right. i think on-class demo maps should all have same wr/tt points and off class should get taxed for the reasons reero/waldo said. i think it makes since with soldier jumping too but i dont really play that class. a weird thing with trying to get some formula to analyze the level of competitiveness for point value in a map is that a lot of maps with very straightforward and imo bland strats have ended up with the most competitive times (see newjuls taking like 3 hrs to get a tt on jump_triplepre (lol) ) because even if mediocre players cant get like top3 it's not much harder for them than someone whos good to get a good time. or maybe Jump_TriplePre should be worth the most points of any demoman map because its the most competitive for a tt, it's a fitting fate for the demoman class. but in the end i dont think it matters much for good jumpers, it seems like most just grind maps they like or focus on trying to wr or tt any maps they can.

i think Points Brain is more common in like rank 30-200 people who are trying to gain ranks. having points battles happen from trying to improve times rather than wall pogo or 3pre/button cheat completion would probably make tempus better, either by a surf server/mmod style groups system or something else idk. it might make more people try to learn how to go fast?

[Shunix]

i think Points Brain is more common in like rank 30-200 people who are trying to gain ranks. having points battles happen from trying to improve times rather than wall pogo or 3pre/button cheat completion would probably make tempus better, either by a surf server/mmod style groups system or something else idk. it might make more people try to learn how to go fast?

i think the problem with the group system is that is that the groups are too big, if that system was implemented id like to see a point improvement for every rank gained atleast within the top 50, on skillsrank where i started off jumping i remember gaining points for every rank i improved on a map and it was the most fun ive ever had with a point system because it gave me a reason to grind out and improve the maps i liked the most, rather than being forced to play garbage for completion points like with how tempus works currently

[tyjle]

prolly woulda stopped playing years ago if there wasn't any completion points. Great goal for non-speedrun oriented players to grind towards.

[Shunix]

prolly woulda stopped playing years ago if there wasn't any completion points. Great goal for non-speedrun oriented players to grind towards.

nobody wants to remove completion points completely, they just want them to be more dynamic and based on your ranking rather than just a flat value

[maxxy]

prolly woulda stopped playing years ago if there wasn't any completion points. Great goal for non-speedrun oriented players to grind towards.

nobody wants to remove completion points completely, they just want them to be more dynamic and based on your ranking rather than just a flat value

Excuse me if I'm misinterpreting this - but wouldn't based on ranking mean that the top jumpers will always stay the same? I joked about this earlier with a lesser understanding but if Boshy is #1 and he gets say 5k points a run, and #2 gets like 2.5k a run, it seems to me that the ranks won't ever change and the same people will be in the same ranking forever or - at least - the top runners will almost always be in the same position. It feels like there's no reward from that. I think a flat value is better because then points are distributed evenly. MAYBE they could be upped so they're higher than Tempus' point allocation but a dynamic completion point system kind of irks me the wrong way but I may just be interpreting this completely wrong.

The point is to reward for consistency and improvements, as in getting better times on many maps. Someone like Boshy or anyone getting good times consistently will always be at the top and that's normal, there's nothing you can do about that and it's better this way imo. There's no reason that someone who gets like 11th on every maps is ranked the same as someone getting last on all of them.

[Shunix]

prolly woulda stopped playing years ago if there wasn't any completion points. Great goal for non-speedrun oriented players to grind towards.

nobody wants to remove completion points completely, they just want them to be more dynamic and based on your ranking rather than just a flat value

Excuse me if I'm misinterpreting this - but wouldn't based on ranking mean that the top jumpers will always stay the same? I joked about this earlier with a lesser understanding but if Boshy is #1 and he gets say 5k points a run, and #2 gets like 2.5k a run, it seems to me that the ranks won't ever change and the same people will be in the same ranking forever or - at least - the top runners will almost always be in the same position. It feels like there's no reward from that. I think a flat value is better because then points are distributed evenly. MAYBE they could be upped so they're higher than Tempus' point allocation but a dynamic completion point system kind of irks me the wrong way but I may just be interpreting this completely wrong.

don't you think that if boshy is the best player with the best runs he deserves to stay higher ranked?

completion as it stands doesnt incentivise replaying a map ever, once you have beaten every map the only way to get more points is to get top 10s

in the current system someone like me who doesnt want to spend 1000s(?) of hours playing maps I hate can never get a high rank, im something like rank 200 and i have more #1s than multiple people in the top 10. In a better system everybody would benefit from improving their times and playing more and people wouldn't feel forced to play maps they hate just for the points because they could get points from improving their time on their favourite map OR they could complete maps and still get points, its a win win

[newjuls]

(see newjuls taking like 3 hrs to get a tt on jump_triplepre (lol) )

this didn't happen you can't prove anything

[gibus]

guys i just came up with the perfect ranking system

step 1: determine the optimal time for every map (just use tas ez)
step 2: assign every run a certain number of 'performance points' (pp for short) based on how close the time is to the optimal time combined with the map difficulty and how smooth your aim is (this one is the most important)
step 3: player performance rating is calculated based on their top 100 performances to de-incentivize grinding every map

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[catfoosh]

 

[Finn91]

Peppy want to know your location