A question on map tiers

[TheTech]

I have been wondering for a while if there are any unwritten "rules" or guidelines on that actually makes a tier 1 a tier 1.

From my limited experience i feel like it varies from time to time due to the fact i can breeze through Map A (T3) but Map B (T3) is almost impossible to finish.
I understand and fully acknowledge the fact that hours count, and when you´ve been jumping for a couple thousands of hours, every T3 is in fact a T3.
For beginners / unskilled jumpers like myself this variation within a tier is both frustrating and soul crushing.
Would it be impossible to produce simple design guidelines for every tier, or would that take away the fun in map making?
For example, jump_beef is a low tier. Add a quint to wallshot at the last jump, it´s not a low tier.
For me, it does not make any sense to have a tier system that works this way, but then again, i´m new.

TL;DR; Is the tier system flawed, or just hard(er) to understand as a new jumper?

BR

[dipp]

I gotta agree with you on this. Maps like above and airships are t3 only because they have that quint/quad at the end. Other than that, it would be t2. That would be of fault of map maker tbh (no offense sitood), but it's their map so they can make it however they'd like.

Not just that, but some older maps with bad (no offense) jumps such as ballin or allstar or rayner. I feel they are t3, but the jumps are just not well spaced or designed.

[donuttt]

i think especially tier 3 has a very very high variety in skill required to beat maps, more than any other tier

[porkie]

I think (could be wrong, I don't allocate the tiers) that it is basically based off of how hard the hardest jump is. You could argue that a typical quint is higher than T3, but in jump_above's case the quint on that map is so easy that it can really be done with only a quad, so we are still calling it a T3.

If it wasn't based off of how hard the hardest jump was, we could get situations where a person who thinks they can complete T3s but not T5s starts a 'T3' map, gets all the way to the end and then hits the brick wall of a random T5 jump, which can be really frustrating as final jumps tend to be harder than the rest to act as some kind of exciting finale.

I think the nerds in charge of all this stuff are going to be expanding the range of tiers soon and re-tiering maps which will hopefully fix these kind of problems.

[TheTech]

i think especially tier 3 has a very very high variety in skill required to beat maps, more than any other tier

Imo it should not vary that much due to the jumps, it should only vary due to the overall map design and the order of the jumps.
To explain myself;
If lets say you had a design guideline that ruled T1 maps have to consist of 1 sync and a double wallshot.
Then the mapper knows this and can apply it.
If however he / she would make it a sync INTO a double wallshot, it would be T2 etc.
I don´t know mapping at all, so i´m sorry if anyone feel offended, i´m just questioning the tiering of maps.
I also want to add that the real reason behind this thread came to me when playing on a JA beginner / medium server.
The map pool allows very large variation in difficulty and sometimes it doesn´t feel like a beginner / medium server.
Especially when i see map A in the beginner server on JA, and map A on Tempus Advanced in the same time.
Just to give a little background, and maybe ramble a little.

[Dr Gains]

The hardest tiered jump of a map IS the tier of the map. You can't have 30 T1 jumps and 1 T6 jump and not call it a T6 map.
As for how tiers are scored, it's mainly by feel (which I know is subjective). There are some generalized techniques. Like T1 double sync, T2 triple, T3 easier quint, T4 harder quint. If you have a complaint about how some maps are tiered you can go here: https://jump.tf/forum/index.php/topic,46 2.0.html since the rest of the jump world seems to revolve around tempus.
There was also another thread here about splitting tiers, but think that was abandoned especially since no one wants to put in the work for that.
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Scimmed over porkies post too quick, but looks like we're on the same page.

[TheTech]

The hardest tiered jump of a map IS the tier of the map. You can't have 30 T1 jumps and 1 T6 jump and not call it a T6 map.
As for how tiers are scored, it's mainly by feel (which I know is subjective). There are some generalized techniques. Like T1 double sync, T2 triple, T3 easier quint, T4 harder quint. If you have a complaint about how some maps are tiered you can go here: https://jump.tf/forum/index.php/topic,46 2.0.html since the rest of the jump world seems to revolve around tempus.
There was also another thread here about splitting tiers, but think that was abandoned especially since no one wants to put in the work for that.
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Scimmed over porkies post too quick, but looks like we're on the same page.

This is the first time i´ve actually heard something concrete on "tier setting" jumps. Thank you!
My original post was not intended to sound like a complaint against how maps are tiered, ´twas more in the direction of map design and design guidelines.
I´ve thought about it some more and realized that if you were to introduce strict demands to qualify a map for a certain tier (Not just the hardest jump) and it would only result in very, VERY generic maps.

[Dr Gains]

If you're building a map you shouldn't be focused on the tier of the map you want. You should building what you think would be fun or interesting for yourself or others, the tier is something that is just placed after as a guideline for jumpers to know what they're getting into.

[John]

Exactly that. You should aim to make your map enjoyable rather than focusing on the difficulty. Whatever happens, happens. If it's fun, people will play it. Of course, having a relative difficulty curve in the map is important, but you can just reorder jumps to make it flow better, so there's no real point in worrying about that.

[Scorch]

You can't have 30 T1 jumps and 1 T6 jump and not call it a T6 map.

e.g. pickles