Unintended class runs

[CrackuhJax]

I agree that specific maps should reward less points for the opposite class, and that maps should be dealt with on a case by case basis. I also agree that it should be up to the "tempus nerds" to decide all that. But this does raise a few questions:

How harshly will the maps be affected?
Would toptime points also be reduced?
Would separate maps be affected differently? (ie: Map A is worth 20% less but map B is worth 15% less)

And in regards to the nerds:
Who exactly are the people that would be deciding all this?
And let's just say there's 20 people making these decisions, will the so called Big Tempus™ group add more members overtime and remove the inactive members? (this is something that will have to be maintained for a long time, and next thing you know 70% of the group quit the game and the system breaks)

I realize not all my questions could have answers right now, but they should at least be taken in to consideration when fixing the very important Tempus™ Points™ System™

Also if we're going to punish maps for the opposite class, the intended class should be listed in map info.

[Exile]

can we have skillsrank frog back in start zone and end zone along with the party noise for wrs ty

[Simontf2]

I agree with Exile also frick vice

[Jacobmeister]

I agree that it seems cheap to learn one technique and be able to score a ton of points because of that one technique, but then it seems more like an issue of tier-assigning. I think it's just like putting a band-aid on a broken leg, that's not gonna work.

Just make a more comprehensive tier list. T1 and T2 could stay the same, but split T3+ into two different sections per tier. So a technical T4 based solly map could be a "high" T4 but it'd get a different number and a map with only one T4 solly jump or only wallpogo could be a "low" T4.

It makes more sense to redo tier listings to make it more comprehensible to everyone rather than just give maps lower point values.

EDIT: Yes I just saw that in another thread that a new tier system is a solution to this but I don't see why you'd need to go further than that. New tier system should fix this problem.

[Syro]

can we have skillsrank frog back in start zone and end zone along with the party noise for wrs ty

Exile should run Tempus

[yaboi]

it comes down to the substance of the map for each class.
take jump_panama, its a nice soldier map with a bunch of speedrun strats and ways to chain jumps, but for demo its essentially jump_triplepre. it has plenty of substance for soldier but little for demo. this should be a case where the offclass gets less points.
then take jump_rush_h, its fine for soldier, but for demo its a pretty fun map to run. there is substance for both classes, so this should be a case where both classes get the same points.

as for deciding when to nerf a class, leave it up to tempus nerds. they know whats up

BIG AGREE!

There are too many wallpogo runs on Demo maps and too many triplepre runs on Soldier maps. Rewarding all runs equally / nerfing points on every unintended map are equally bad options. If you want to properly balance points you would need to do it selectively.

Demo mains who only triplepre but struggle with T5/T6 maps or suck at every other technique (airdouble, speedpogo, moving directions while verting, etc.) can easily get a TT on a map like jump_pdidey or jump_ablation (if they grind the gay anti-grav level). However, get them to run a lower tiered map like jump_lithium or jump_steak and they won't even get close to TT. Players who are only REALLY good at triplepre get rewarded more than those who are decently good at every technique.

Another thing to note is that fewer pro players run the maps that require little skill. If you look at the TTs for jump_pdidey, the only pros are Mesatech and Seras. I'm pretty sure Soup, Newjuls, Starkie, etc. can all easily TT the map and maybe even get WR, but they choose not to because it's a boring run consisting of 30 easy back-to-back triplepres. Compare that to jump_zero, which is lower tier and has TTs from Soup, Minty, Mesa, Eun, Seras, Newjuls and more. All the TTs on triplepre maps are comparable to wallpogo runs on airpogo maps. Most pros don't want to do it.

[Zike]

can we have skillsrank frog back in start zone and end zone along with the party noise for wrs ty

I also support exile's movement and think a new poll should be in order
It'd be cool if it was kinda like Halloween/Christmas event thing toggled on for like tf2 birthday or some date relevant to jump

[Syro]

can we have skillsrank frog back in start zone and end zone along with the party noise for wrs ty

I also support exile's movement and think a new poll should be in order
It'd be cool if it was kinda like Halloween/Christmas event thing toggled on for like tf2 birthday or some date relevant to jump

[All_Over_RS]

does this mean my scout jump map wont give points anymore?

[Starkie]

can we have skillsrank frog back in start zone and end zone along with the party noise for wrs ty

I also support exile's movement and think a new poll should be in order
It'd be cool if it was kinda like Halloween/Christmas event thing toggled on for like tf2 birthday or some date relevant to jump

dragon ball z ranks

[sciens]

I think boshy's demo map wrs are insane and that we should create a youtube channel called TF2 Demo Map Weekly, showcasing the best wallpogo and random bhop runs ever.

also please change the chat rank colors back; I'm sure most everyone thinks that pink esquire sucks

[Scoot]

For soldier i think running strictly wallpogo maps should be nerfed as its way to easy to farm points from those maps, such as storm and mireal3.

Otherwise, demo maps that aren't strictly wallpogo for soldier shouldn't be nerfed imo just as they aren't just lame wallpogo over and over again, such as maps like lanc, grimace, pine and huh. Though deciding where to draw the line between wallpogo maps and non-wallpogo(ish) maps might hard as some maps are kinda 50-50 wallpogo/not wallpogo so idk how that would be decided.

But yeah straight up wallpogo maps are lame and need to be nerfed a bit but otherwise those maps that aren't just holding m1 on a wall for 3 minutes each level don't need to be nerfed imo.

[vice]

hello what is this thread i request a delete tyvm triple pres r the best.. . . . . ....

[ferociousfiat666]

hello what is this thread i request a delete tyvm triple pres r the best.. . . . . ....

DIE DIE DIE

[Megalosquatch]

If there's going to be a change, I would strongly prefer the selected maps are handpicked by knowledgeable players, or at least voted on by the community at large. I think doing a full nerf across the board only serves to lower interest in picking maps not meant for your class.

Personal bias makes me want to say that the points from these maps shouldn't be changed, but I think that's just because I take so long to do some of them, I feel that by the end it's accurate compensation for the time spent enduring something like jump_storm as soldier. Time spent obviously doesn't equal points earned, but the endurance required is its own kind of challenge.

On the other hand, I understand the concern that a skill like wallpogo is valued too highly. Being able to grind points on a ton of demo maps just because of one repetitive skill isn't a very fair system. Maps that focus on only one concept (jump_manitou, jump_rebound, jump_sync) are fair because there aren't dozens of them.

Effectively, the difference between wallpogo maps that are designed for soldier versus demo maps that become exclusively wallpogo seems to be technical diversity. I think if being a jack of all trades is valued more than mastering a single skill, these maps should be nerfed accordingly. Just be fair with the judgment on what gets changed, and by how much. On that, I don't really have a suggestion. I agree with 879m.

EDIT: I posted this thinking it was about completion, oops. I guess a little bit still applies.