Button Cheating as Soldier

[MrHappyCamper]

I agree with 879m. Punishing button cheating would be akin to punishing someone for not doing a jump's intended route, people would be worried about what jumps they can or can't button cheat (like the jump Klowwd was talking about) and what counts as button cheating, they would have to ask the button nazis if how they did a jump is ok. It would be great if we could make it so that people cannot effect other's buttons/jumps, essentially like running different instances of the map, but we can't so we can't realistically punish button cheating.

[gunshlinger]

Open up the tempus shop and if you pay 50,000 points you never have to push a button again.

[Starkie]

I agree with 879m. Punishing button cheating would be akin to punishing someone for not doing a jump's intended route, people would be worried about what jumps they can or can't button cheat (like the jump Klowwd was talking about) and what counts as button cheating, they would have to ask the button nazis if how they did a jump is ok. It would be great if we could make it so that people cannot effect other's buttons/jumps, essentially like running different instances of the map, but we can't so we can't realistically punish button cheating.

this isn't focused on completion, it's talking about TTs/WRs

[MrHappyCamper]

this isn't focused on completion, it's talking about TTs/WRs

Exactly. So if you're a noob is it alright to button cheat but as you become better does it then become unacceptable? There are lots of inconsistencies with a punishment, it's easier to just remove buttons/doors if you don't want button cheating.

[Gorge004]

this isn't focused on completion, it's talking about TTs/WRs

Exactly. So if you're a noob is it alright to button cheat but as you become better does it then become unacceptable? There are lots of inconsistencies with a punishment, it's easier to just remove buttons/doors if you don't want button cheating.

I don't think it matters if you're going for completion and accidently get button cheated or you get someone to button cheat for you. That's just on you for being bad and not wanting to improve without any impact on other runs/jumpers

It's when it comes down to grinding a WR or TT and you get someone to button cheat so you get a siginificant time save over someone doing the jump legit. That kind of cheat lets you do a different strat, like it let's you speedshot or pogo through the connector without needing to stop/shoot yourself down through the button hole/wallshot 1 more time because you know you don't have to deal with the button and you don't have to stop for it.
That's the kind of cheated strat that you would never be able to "accidently" do if someone is randomly on that jump and shoot the button for you because you wouldn't expect it. You would stop or pull out shotgun to shoot at the button anyway and the fact that someone else shot it before you wouldn't save you time.

And for the rare cases that someone is running without hide on, see someone about to shoot the button and have time to react to keep going without stoping for the button, that's still cheating imo.
You need to find the fastest way through the map while still shooting the button. Even if the door is already open and/or you see that it's gonna get open by someone else doing the jump, you should still have to stop and shoot the button yourself.

[Labrador]

The only solution would be to get maps where button cheating allows for high time saving strats and wipe those maps completely and add jump_elite buttons. People are going to be more mad about this when the new point system comes out and top times matter more as it won't be the top ten times getting bonus points.

[Sere]

I'd prefer to remove all button jumps from tempus entirely rather than punish people for it.

If you punish button cheating but keep buttons you open a whole bag of worms, such as:

1) What if someone else happens to be running at the same time, you see them shoot the button and elect not to shoot the button. You complete the jump and get a tt/wr. Should you be punished?

2) What if someone else happens to be running at the same time, you see them shoot the button and elect not to shoot the button, but this jump is made in such a way you would have not lost time by trying to shoot the button(say for instance you are mid-air for the button jump, think jump_proto). You complete the jump and get a tt/wr. Should you be punished?

3) What if someone else happens to be running at the same time, you see them shoot the button and decide to shoot the button anyway. You miss, but the other player hits the button, allowing you to complete the run. You complete the jump and get a tt/wr. Should you be punished?

4) What if someone else happens to be running at the same time, you see them shoot the button and decide to shoot the button anyway. You hit the button, but the other player hits the button 1 frame earlier, allowing you a theoretical  milisecond advantage over a normal run. You complete the jump and get a tt/wr. Should you be punished? If not, what if he shoots it 2 frames faster? 3? At what point is that advantage too much?

5) What if you aren't on a tt/wr run? What if its actually a 6 hour run, you are on last of that map, and someone accidentally shoots the button letting you complete the run? Do we wipe their run anyway?

Basically, no sane runner should run the map if there is even 1 person on the server not speccing them, since it risks being punished. And for button maps on beginner server(most button maps tend to be on the easier side of the spectrum, with a couple exceptions), where many players are focused on improving their rocket jump ability more than speccing great jumpers, good jumpers are basically prohibited from trying to tt/wr lest they accidentally get button help from sandvich.jose.2004

[Shunix]

could you use admin magic to add teleports to doors so that only the person shooting the button can get through?

[reero]

just remove buttons. they suck and no map is made more interesting or more challenging by their presence

[yeye]

remove button like doors, keep it as an offline novelty

impossible to police

[Shunix]

Are we really going to pretend that people accidentally get buttons shot for them often? that's a super rare occurrence... just punish people who are intentionally using button slaves to get their runs, nobody cares about completion anyway so having people shoot buttons for that is whatever.

[Shunix]

also in the rare case that a door is open by someone else as long as the person still shoots the buttons i dont see the issue with letting the run stay

[kiddeR]

removing buttons just seems incredibly lazy and removes soldier skill on certain maps (not many), i don't think its a reasonable answer at all
also gives a free timesave on the wr on every single soldier map wr with buttons which is kinda shit

[yeye]

Are we really going to pretend that people accidentally get buttons shot for them often? that's a super rare occurrence... just punish people who are intentionally using button slaves to get their runs, nobody cares about completion anyway so having people shoot buttons for that is whatever.

it is a rare occurrence, however if it does occur itll force other people who want to go for wr to have that "rare occurrence" by button cheating. if button cheating is punished then there will appear a gray zone of cheating where "oh i just happened to have a friend on that jump shooting the button a lot the entire 3 hours of me running the map"

removing buttons removes the suspicion of cheating and forcing admins to watch every substaintial WR run on a map with buttons and moreover making all runs consistent-WR or completion.

additionally, removing buttons would make demo jumpers happy. many demo jumpers avoid maps with buttons like soldiers avoid t0 maps- removing buttons would make demo speedrunning viable on soldier maps.

[Ladyboog]

remove all buttons

agree