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Casual controversy

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Zato is Fedorable

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Reply #30 on: November 03, 2014, 08:38:06 PM
>implying jumping wasn't always dead

topkek
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Grandpa

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Reply #31 on: November 03, 2014, 08:39:18 PM
Why did you guys hide it for so long? What was the point. "ruin the community" Who the fuck said that?

And WHY did you guys so aggressively defend him, looking at you cody, and no "le epik meme troll madsmad" isnt going to cut it. I need a good explanation.

nolem

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Reply #32 on: November 03, 2014, 08:39:46 PM
It'd be really cool to see some runs with what you release but you should realllllly make sure that its detectable when you are using it.

Zigzati

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Reply #33 on: November 03, 2014, 08:41:35 PM
Quote from: talkingmelon on November 03, 2014, 08:39:46 PM
It'd be really cool to see some runs with what you release but you should realllllly make sure that its detectable when you are using it.
Casual said he's going to make it painfully obvious to detect. Hopefully people don't modify it or something.

Zato is Fedorable

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Reply #34 on: November 03, 2014, 08:43:25 PM
with movement recorders becoming more popular now its just a matter of time before someone manages to mix them together
8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)8)

RNC1839

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Reply #35 on: November 03, 2014, 08:44:19 PM
Thank you, Casual.
I would hope the only people willing to take the time to make TAS's would actually own up to it, and I do sincerely thank you for being honest. There's nothing wrong having fun. And I love the idea of seeing what could in theory be possible. But when people start to lie about this thing I get annoyed. Integrity is important especially in this hobby where we can go offline and do anything.

I will say before you release it you may want to somehow create a way of embedding some code or something that makes it obvious that the run is TAS. Also I don't really think releasing it would be the best idea, but that's purely negative speculation. (yes I know this has been answered already)

John

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Reply #36 on: November 03, 2014, 08:45:14 PM
well, at least we have come to a conclusion this time around. Thanks Casual for being the good guy and not being a Raiin, whatever may that be at this point. :^)
TAS are great and all, but shouldn't be considered with the human speedruns.

I am actually interested in this TAS because I actually do find it interesting. Hope it works out well.

but yeah next time don't hide and defend yourself for so long because all it does is cause more salt

Rob123

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Reply #37 on: November 03, 2014, 08:54:52 PM
Quote from: Casual on November 03, 2014, 08:30:32 PM
However I was still sitting on the void run and had no intention to let all this work stay in the dark. The only alternative was to release the speedruns passing them off as legit.

I have no idea how this was seen as the only alternative. I'm assuming what you refer to as 'all this work' was the TAS. Releasing demos under the guise of legit runs doesn't seem to bring any light to that, instead it just created a bunch of controversy.

As for releasing the tool, I'd be really interested in how you are planning to make it clear that runs using it are not legit. It has potentially massive consequences, which is worrying given how many controversial runs you have distributed before this post today.

I would have really enjoyed seeing a dedicated TAS channel / runs from the start. From there, distributing the tool with the same precautions would feel much more reasonable than doing it after pretending to have completed these runs for 5 months now

obsidiian

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Reply #38 on: November 03, 2014, 09:06:58 PM
Ok, so I'd like to point out a few things.

First off, I'm glad to see how accepting people are of the fact that these runs were TAS.  I think most people have handled it very well, especially Casual himself.  This is exactly how Raiin should have handled his runs:  admitted the truth and then done what he could to right his wrongs.

Second, this is really a revolution in jumping.  There are so many uses for Casual's tool that can be used for good.

1. Jump Map Showcases

No longer will you have to spend hours trying to get your cuts to look good.  With this tool, you can put together a flawless run of a map, improving showcases and videos of jump maps.  Since the tool will make it clear that it is a TAS run, people will be unable to pass off runs as speedruns done legitimately.

2. Theoretical perfect runs

Everything Casual did in all of his runs was possible in normal TF2.  He just didn't do them all in one run.  This opens up new possibilities for non-TAS perfect runs.  Someone could get a perfect or near-perfect run of a map and use it as a standard to aim for without using the tool since all the runs are possible without assistance.  As far as I know, nobody has flawless jump_soar, let alone gotten a perfect run of it.  With Casual's tool, someone could get a TAS run of the map and then use it a benchmark for their normal runs and something to aim for.

3. TAS speedrunning

Maps could be created with TAS in mind, leaving room open for ridiculous strats that would otherwise be near-impossible.  And since everyone would have the tool, everyone would be on even ground and it would come down to creativity, not consistency and execution.  What always amazed me the most with Casual's runs was the creativity of the strats, not the execution of the strats.  People would never have tried some of the things he did in his runs because they were too risky to do during a good run.  However, since everyone could use the tool in a TAS run, new possibilities would be open and people would be limited only by their creativity and the game itself, not necessarily how consistently then can grind out a jump.

There are even more possibilities than the ones listed here, such as co-op TAS running in segments and other things that would have previously been impossible, but I'll save those for later.  For now, I'd just like to thank Casual for revolutionizing jumping.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 09:10:16 PM by obsidiian »

ReMaXeD

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Reply #39 on: November 03, 2014, 09:22:21 PM
The controversy has loomed around too long.  I still feel like we aren't getting the truth.   :-\

Do as you see fit.  Just remember, I've got my eye on you!  :o

RNC1839

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Reply #40 on: November 03, 2014, 09:29:00 PM
Quote from: obsidiian on November 03, 2014, 09:06:58 PM
No longer will you have to spend hours trying to get your cuts to look good.
Hours. Scrub. 8) 8) 8)

But otherwise yeah this is fucking great. I was just going to use Jsave for any TAS relate videos I make and edit the cuts together. But this seems to be a lot better (lazier).

nolem

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Reply #41 on: November 03, 2014, 09:30:27 PM
Quote from: RNC1839 on November 03, 2014, 09:29:00 PM
But otherwise yeah this is fucking great. I was just going to use Jsave for any TAS relate videos I make and edit the cuts together. But this seems to be a lot better (lazier).

:( Jsave no longer relevant

ReMaXeD

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Reply #42 on: November 03, 2014, 09:38:28 PM
i will still use jsave melon

 :-*

Grandpa

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Reply #43 on: November 03, 2014, 09:38:43 PM
Quote from: obsidiian on November 03, 2014, 09:06:58 PM
Ok, so I'd like to point out a few things.

First off, I'm glad to see how accepting people are of the fact that these runs were TAS.  I think most people have handled it very well, especially Casual himself.  This is exactly how Raiin should have handled his runs:  admitted the truth and then done what he could to right his wrongs.

Second, this is really a revolution in jumping.  There are so many uses for Casual's tool that can be used for good.

1. Jump Map Showcases

No longer will you have to spend hours trying to get your cuts to look good.  With this tool, you can put together a flawless run of a map, improving showcases and videos of jump maps.  Since the tool will make it clear that it is a TAS run, people will be unable to pass off runs as speedruns done legitimately.

2. Theoretical perfect runs

Everything Casual did in all of his runs was possible in normal TF2.  He just didn't do them all in one run.  This opens up new possibilities for non-TAS perfect runs.  Someone could get a perfect or near-perfect run of a map and use it as a standard to aim for without using the tool since all the runs are possible without assistance.  As far as I know, nobody has flawless jump_soar, let alone gotten a perfect run of it.  With Casual's tool, someone could get a TAS run of the map and then use it a benchmark for their normal runs and something to aim for.

3. TAS speedrunning

Maps could be created with TAS in mind, leaving room open for ridiculous strats that would otherwise be near-impossible.  And since everyone would have the tool, everyone would be on even ground and it would come down to creativity, not consistency and execution.  What always amazed me the most with Casual's runs was the creativity of the strats, not the execution of the strats.  People would never have tried some of the things he did in his runs because they were too risky to do during a good run.  However, since everyone could use the tool in a TAS run, new possibilities would be open and people would be limited only by their creativity and the game itself, not necessarily how consistently then can grind out a jump.

There are even more possibilities than the ones listed here, such as co-op TAS running in segments and other things that would have previously been impossible, but I'll save those for later.  For now, I'd just like to thank Casual for revolutionizing jumping.

3rd, yes dude, you understand. This is what i wanna see.

AI

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Reply #44 on: November 03, 2014, 09:40:15 PM
Hi, I am an independent plugin developer collaborating with JoinedSenses' ++RJump East Coast jump servers that has been creating additions to the server's plugins repertoire.

My recent addition has been a JumpBOT rocket- and sticky- jump recording/playback plugin for tutorial purposes.  The description of the Casual's plugin surrounding this controversy appears to run in a similar nature as mine, and I would like to shed some light around positive uses of such plugins, especially for beginner jumpers so as to not let controversy drag bot plugins into becoming a taboo topic.

I currently have approximately 2.5k separate jump recordings, including alternates, spanning 116 maps.  I will post more about this in the plugins section and set the system up for demonstration on the servers shortly.

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