Bhops on Tele Surfaces

[Cyan]

So basically I love Bhopping in Tf2. Jump_bouncehop is one of my favorite maps and I am always hunting for new ways to apply bhop.

Obviously jump_bouncehop is based around bunny hoping on surfaces that would otherwise teleport you back. When I tried to apply this technique I quickly realized the tele trigger has to be applied in a certain way to allow for bhops. Is there a way I can check other jump maps to see what surfaces are able to be bhopped on?

[Zigzati]

Definitely. If you're on a Tempus server, there's a plugin called bouncecheck that's usually shortened to bcheck. This plugin checks the height of the tele trigger off the surface of the ground and the height from which you drop, and tells you whether you can bounce or not and if so, which kind of bounce you can do. If it says you can do an uncrouched bounce, then it's 99.9% likely you can do a bouncehop. There are a couple of rare exceptions where the tele trigger is a tad bit too high, but it should work a vast majority of the time.

[nolem]

I'm probably going to add something to my plugin that checks for tele triggers because tempus bcheck isn't public.
You can use this plugin to find uncrouched bounces, but this doesn't take into account tele height so even if it says you can do an uncrouched bounce, you might not be able to http://www.tf2jump.com/tf2jumpforums/forums.tf2jump.com/index.php/topic,2386.0.html

[Cyan]

So I understand what this tempus plugin you are talking about does, but in situations where i wanna bunny hop across a typically pogo jump (like the first pogo you get on quba) I think the plugin might get confused about what I am intending to do. Or does it tell me the the actual height of the trigger so I can just compare that height to one of the surfaces from bouncehop.

EDIT: Just saw melon edited his post. So is there a plugin that tells me the heights of the tele itself? Also what is the max height the tele can be at that still leaves the surface bhop-able.

[nolem]

The bcheck that I linked and tempus bcheck check the height of the surface you are looking at relative to the height of the surface you are standing on, and then tell you if it is even possible to do a bounce on them. Tempus bcheck includes tele heights, other bcheck does not. If an uncrouched bounce is possible according to the plugin, that means you can bouncehop off of it. After you bouncehop once, you can do it one more time, but after that it is impossible to do it again on the same surface. It has something to do with a different height that you jump to when you bhop, but I'm not entirely sure.

Edit: Saw your edit - The tele has to be exactly 1 unit above the surface and I'm fairly sure tempus bcheck is the only one that accounts for tele heights but I'll work on putting it in my plugin sometime soonish. My plugin http://tf2rj.com/forum/index.php?topic=745.0

[Cyan]

Well again referring to jump_bouncehop, there are some jumps where I have done 3+ hops on one surface. Seeing as bhop refers to the timing of your jump not the speed etc. (though those factors do make the frame perfect jump more challenging) I don't think being able to only bhop twice on one surface is a thing.

[nolem]

I don't know about bhops on surfaces that don't tele you, but for bouncehops I am positive that you can only do it twice.

[Zigzati]

Well again referring to jump_bouncehop, there are some jumps where I have done 3+ hops on one surface.

3 jumps on one surface? I'm sorry, but could you provide a demo of that or something? I have thoroughly tested bouncehops through consistent methods and I have never managed to get 3 jumps on any surface ever. If you could provide a demo demonstrating that this is possible that would be fantastic.

[Cyan]

I have a memory of doing number 7 with 3 hops not two but I guess that is false. I'm not in a position to play tf2 and don't know when I will be able to next. So I guess the last jump of bouncehop is possible because you are on 3 different surfaces?

[Zigzati]

So I guess the last jump of bouncehop is possible because you are on 3 different surfaces?

Precisely.

[Cyan]

So what is it that makes more then 2 jumps not possible exactly?

[nolem]

So what is it that makes more then 2 jumps not possible exactly?

I had tried to figure this out a while ago but it has something to do with the fact that a perfect bhop will launch you slightly higher than a normal jump, so you have a different set of heights that you travel through. If you jump on a surface you are not able to do a bhop on that same surface (not a perfect one), but for some reason if you bhop on a surface, the new sets of heights allow for a perfect bhop. I guess if you bhop on a surface twice, you get a whole NEW set of height values, and those ones don't let you bouncehop.

[Cyan]

Hmm, interesting. Wonder what about those specific heights ruin the bhop. Because you can land bhops off of high surfaces as well as low.

[nolem]

You can bhop when the bottom of your model is right at the tele height. The source engine does everything in ticks. There are 66(.666) ticks per second on servers. They take your velocity per tick, add the gravity per tick to it, and then calculate your position from that new velocity. As you fall, you have certain height values each tick that are predictable to within .001 hammer units or something like that. At slower falling speeds, there are more bounce heights because the height values are less spread out as you fall slower, but when you fall at a faster speed, the heights become very spread out that you can bounce at. Mappers either get lucky with the values that they pick or they chose heights from this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10gxF6NHQnG3WEk6oZ9guYxFN8gZv0Eb2ukpW1tXReP0/edit

[CrancK]

Ye when making bouncehop the guys making it tested it on my server, i have some speed showing plugins (and height checker) and we found out that you indeed jump slightly higher after about 2 or 3 hops (depending on how you started and jumped etc), which is why you couldn't bhop over tp's infinitly without raising floorheight.

I don't remember all the details anymore, was a while ago by now, but ye, bhop puts you like 1.# unit orso higher after 2 or 3 hops, that little bit being enough time for the tp to act.
That being said, i do remember the guys trying out all sorts of shiz with jumping in different ways, to counteract it... (like crouch/nocrouch before/after jump makes a difference in jumpheight) and on one jump i think one of them got 4 bhops on tp somehow, but i'm not sure which one, hell it was back in testing then, dunno if they totally changed layout after that anyway

So ye, vague memories :S