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Demo Nerf (NEW FIX?)

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Poll

Does old_radiusdamage 1 work?

Yes
2 (15.4%)
No
1 (7.7%)
poop
10 (76.9%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Honster

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Quote
January 7, 2015 - TF2 Team
    Fixed the air detonation radius for stickybomb jumps

Sounds like they removed the radius reverse-falloff for self damage and left the standard blast radius at 146 hammer units from 159? If thats the case, would those 13Hu even make that much of a difference? Basic stuff where the falloff didnt even apply has felt perfectly workable, along with vertical airpogo for some reason. I cant even say i feel a difference beyond maybe a placebo effect... Bearing in mind i cant continuously horizontal airpogo so i have no frame of reference or real ability to test that anyway.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 01:13:37 AM by Honster »


Tx_

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"Grenades and Stickybombs now have the same base blast radius as rockets. Changed from 159Hu to 146Hu."


Dr. Heinz

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"Grenades and Stickybombs now have the same base blast radius as rockets. Changed from 159Hu to 146Hu."
Hm might still not be all the way to how it was, but it's much better now.


Lambda

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In airpogo every unit count, if i want to do a super long one i will need every unit, so yeah, for me stills like shit and airpogo is not back.
Also, those guys are playing with the weapon's stats after 7 - 8 years... that sucks.





RNC1839

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If thats the case, would those 13Hu even make that much of a difference?

The difference in radius put into more understandable numbers is 9.75 inches (1 unit == .75 inches). And to top that off it's in all 3 dimensions, twice (because radius).
I can't say exactly how many units a person should be over the actual sticky but I would guess based off the size of the average hit marker and videos with 0 interp it's around 100-120 units (6.25 - 7.5 feet). That is from the sticky's center to whatever part of the hitbox is normally affected, which I think is the feet.

Also from what I understand the scaling is relatively the same so with the old 159 would be the bare minimum and 146 would be a somewhat larger but for the most part useless amount.
But now to get the same ratio where 146 is basically nothing you would need 134.062893082 and that would be as useless as the old 146.
With more useful numbers
159 -> 120 ---- 100
146 -> 110.1 -- 91.8
That ends up being 9.9 and 7.2 units (~7.5 - 6 inches) closer you need to be to the sticky.
Keep in mind this is assuming a linear decrease in propulsion going away from the origin.

All that is well and good and seems not too drastic, until you think about volume change.
With the old 159 radius there was a volume of 4110.7 cubic feet.
The new 146 radius' volume is 3182.6 cubic feet.
22.5% decrease in volume with only an 8.17% decrease in radius.

And all that was done looking at the entire sphere and not just the 16.67% of that sphere that's actually usable in an airpogo.
(I'm defining the usable area as 1/6th of a sphere because you need both vertical and horizontal speed, with one never over bearing the other. If you can imagine a cube, it's the top face I'm considering usable)
The ratio is the same 22.5% decrease, but it does show how hard it was to start out.

To go back to normal airpogo you would need to improve your aim by 7-10 units directly up.
And if you've ever fired a sticky in the air you should understand the issues that causes.
Stickies travel in a parabola.
You have to aim higher, which means the sticky will be farther behind you, and the harder it is to hit that 16.67% of a sphere with a 22.5% smaller volume.
Now you could charge the stickies to make up for that. Except for the fact that it's pretty much impossible (especially uncrouch).

So does 13 units make a difference?
Mathematically? Yes.
In practice? I can't say, but going off Lambda and Tx_ I'll say yes.


Lambda

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Could those guys fix that?
They realized that secondary weapon was pretty OP 8 years later... that is their fault, not ours.


RNC1839

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Could those guys fix that?
They realized that secondary weapon was pretty OP 8 years later... that is their fault, not ours.

Absolutely. Just need to set it up so the personal damage/explosion radius is the same as the old version. And the jumpers both already do that with different parameters on that stuff so it's not like they don't know how to do it.

Or revert the nerf and try a new one.

The patch notes do seem to have fixed it but if you guys are saying it's still dead then :/


Dr. Heinz

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So, since it's still only 146 units instead of 159. Can someone with contacts email valve or do we have to start another petition for this?


RNC1839

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So I just looked at the petition thing again and I never actually tested to see if it was still 146 units after the most recent update. My math is still correct but potentially irrelevant.

Quick edit: another potential fix is to have the radius drop from 159 to whatever when the sticky hits a wall/the ground. Airpogo and air dets would be fine but sticky spam for the most part would decline a bit, maybe I don't play the metagame enough.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 10:08:46 AM by RNC1839 »


Dr. Heinz

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Its an easy fix, just make it like they did with the DH. Self blastradius is different.


John

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4:30 PM - Whisker :>: i emailed him
4:30 PM - Whisker :>: thoughi t feels kinda nitpicky so hopefully he doesnt take it the wrong way

from a day ago


Dr. Heinz

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Thanks Whisker.
I hope he also said they can fix it like with the DH. And still keep the nerf.


Savitar

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Anyone know the offline commands to revert the sticky changes? plsthx


uNKnown

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Anyone know the offline commands to revert the sticky changes? plsthx

it requires sourcemod, cant be changed offline (????)
sm_cvar tf_sticky_airdet_radius 1.0
sm_cvar tf_sticky_radius_ramp_time 0