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Offline  J. Cheeseball (Super_Gabber)
Mouse Settings
« on: July 08, 2013, 04:27:54 PM »
Fly
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Posts: 74
So lately I've been trying to get my settings straight as they were a bit out of whack with my new mouse and keyboard.

I have a mouse that is capable of 5600dpi.  Competitive players generally range from 6"-12"/360, I personally can't jump properly with anything over 5.5"/360.  I'm curious to see what people use for jumping and if they switch from there usual settings just for jumping.

My second question would be should I be using my max dpi at all times and adjust sens in game to get to my range?  Curious to what people are using in here.
   
Offline  Stimpack
Re: Mouse Settings
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2013, 07:02:04 PM »
Rocketeer
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Posts: 331
the skybox is the limit
Use whatever you want.

I'm using a 3500dpi mouse (razer abyssus) with 0.40 in-game sens and 1.33 mouse accel (raw input)
   
Offline  J. Cheeseball (Super_Gabber)
Re: Mouse Settings
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2013, 08:47:01 PM »
Fly
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Posts: 74
Quote from: Stimpack on July 08, 2013, 07:02:04 PM
Use whatever you want.

I'm using a 3500dpi mouse (razer abyssus) with 0.40 in-game sens and 1.33 mouse accel (raw input)

Do you set your dpi at 3500 or another level?  Do you notice much of a difference from 1000dpi and up?  Also how come you have decided to use mouse accel?
   
Offline  duppy
Re: Mouse Settings
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2013, 10:02:00 PM »
Fly
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Posts: 99
I set my mouse pointer speed in the Windows control panel to be exactly in the middle so there's a 1:1 ratio between mouse movement and the pointer...all acceleration disabled too.  Also I set my DPI to the max, which is 1800 dpi, and then in-game I tweak the sensitivity.  For TF2 I set the in-game sensitivity to 4.5 which ends up being about 2.5 inches (~64mm) of movement to spin 360 degrees.

Here's my CFG settings to disable acceleration, filtering, etc. :

Code: [Select]
m_rawinput 1

m_customaccel_exponent "0"     // Mouse move is raised to this power before being scaled by scale factor.
m_customaccel_max "0"          // Max mouse move scale factor, 0 for no limit
m_customaccel_scale "0"        // Custom mouse acceleration value.
m_filter "0"                   // Mouse filtering smooths input averaged over last two frames. In other words, it smooths mouse movement at the cost of accuracy.
m_mouseaccel1 "0"              // Windows mouse acceleration initial threshold (2x movement).
m_mouseaccel2 "0"              // Windows mouse acceleration secondary threshold (4x movement).
m_mousespeed "0"               // Windows mouse acceleration (0 = disable)
m_forward "1"                  // Mouse forward factor.
m_pitch "0.022"                // Mouse pitch factor.
m_side "0.8"                   // Mouse side factor.
m_yaw "0.022"                  // Mouse yaw factor.
m_customaccel "0"              // Custom mouse acceleration
Vertical Sync is turned off too because it can lag your input.

Besides that, I start TF2 with this (last 3 arguments affect the mouse):

Code: [Select]
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\Steam.exe" -applaunch 440 -fullscreen -w 1920 -h 1080 -novid -noforcemaccel -noforcemparms -noforcemsp
Anyway, there's a lot of conflicting info out there on how best to setup your mouse settings, but really in the end, I think it just comes down to sticking with one setting you're comfortable with and getting used to it so that it becomes part of your muscle memory.  Just don't tweak your settings too often or you'll become less accurate.
   
Offline  J. Cheeseball (Super_Gabber)
Re: Mouse Settings
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2013, 10:27:18 PM »
Fly
**

Posts: 74
That is one thing I didn't understand, in the calculators they have the windows multiplier spot and I didn't know how to set that.  So that makes sense.

http://www.notalent.org/sensitivity/sensitivity.htm

I think I'm slowly getting to my sweet spot which is somewhere around 7"/360.  However it might be wrong considering my windows setting might not be in the middle..  2"/360 is crazy fast tho!  I'll have to take a peak at the vert sync as that makes sense.

Thanks for the input guys.
   
Offline  Kairu927
Re: Mouse Settings
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2013, 12:32:17 AM »
Rocketman
*****

Posts: 630
Quote from: duppy on July 08, 2013, 10:02:00 PM
stuff


Is there any specific reason to use high dpi+low sens? I have my DPI set quite low (900) because I don't like the speed I end up getting in windows when setting DPI higher.

In-game, my sens puts me at ~13inch/360 though, regardless.

Quote from: Super_Gabber on July 08, 2013, 10:27:18 PM
That is one thing I didn't understand, in the calculators they have the windows multiplier spot and I didn't know how to set that.  So that makes sense.

http://www.notalent.org/sensitivity/sensitivity.htm

I think I'm slowly getting to my sweet spot which is somewhere around 7"/360.  However it might be wrong considering my windows setting might not be in the middle..  2"/360 is crazy fast tho!  I'll have to take a peak at the vert sync as that makes sense.

Thanks for the input guys.


Control Panel > Hardware > Mouse, Pointer Options tab.

Look at Pointer speed, the first option.  There are 11 ticks, default is on the sixth.  If you're on the sixth, like the chart says, keep 1.0, otherwise adjust.
   
Offline  J. Cheeseball (Super_Gabber)
Re: Mouse Settings
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2013, 02:23:08 AM »
Fly
**

Posts: 74
Quote from: Kairu927 on July 09, 2013, 12:32:17 AM
Is there any specific reason to use high dpi+low sens? I have my DPI set quite low (900) because I don't like the speed I end up getting in windows when setting DPI higher.

In-game, my sens puts me at ~13inch/360 though, regardless.

Well from what I read, the higher the DPI the higher the accuracy, just like more pixels on a camera I suppose.  I'm trying out at highest DPI(5600) right now.  It is kind of annoying though going to windows with it, however my mouse software I just have to click a button on my mouse to change it.
   
Offline  QuBA
Re: Mouse Settings
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2013, 03:02:57 AM »
Soldier
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Posts: 134
Quote from: Super_Gabber on July 09, 2013, 02:23:08 AM
Quote from: Kairu927 on July 09, 2013, 12:32:17 AM
Is there any specific reason to use high dpi+low sens? I have my DPI set quite low (900) because I don't like the speed I end up getting in windows when setting DPI higher.

Well from what I read, the higher the DPI the higher the accuracy, just like more pixels on a camera I suppose. 

900 dpi and 13 inches means 11700 dots per 360, thats 32.5 dots per 1°. Thats easily more than enough.
   
Offline  DAoliHVAR
Re: Mouse Settings
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2013, 05:24:23 AM »
Soldier
***

Posts: 135
bball
brb going 5600 dpi and 6 ingame sensitivity
ULTIMATE PRECISION
if i miss an airshot or smth its the game not me 8)


---------------------------
i play bball often
   
Offline  derdotte
Re: Mouse Settings
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2013, 06:08:35 AM »
Soldier
***

Posts: 105
i am using 7,7cm/360° for any class except scout and sniper there i use around 15cm/360°.
even then it is mostly preference. a year ago i had like 3cm/360° i could jump really good but my aim was just really messy. if you want to jump and aim good you should stay WITH your sens and try to find the way how you need to aim, changing it every week does not help yourself.
anyway more then 2,70 ingame sens should not be used just because you will skip pixels in the game.
   
Offline  J. Cheeseball (Super_Gabber)
Re: Mouse Settings
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2013, 05:20:58 PM »
Fly
**

Posts: 74
Looking into a bit more I found this which is fairly interesting.  It seems while there will be little difference between a certain DPI and anything above it, if your mouse supports it I see no reason not to set it to max DPI.

Quote
if you have high resolution on your monitor you will need a mouse with high dpi. if you have low dpi on a high resolution screen it will feel like you "skip" pixels.

on a 640x480 resolution 400 dpi is ok.

there is a formula you can use to see how much dpi you need. its something like this


R = ( pi * W ) / ( I * tan[ F / 2 ] )

where
W = screen resolution width
I = real sensitivity (distance per 360 turn)
F = horizontal fov

R = mouse resolution required

if you dont want to calculate you can always just try to lower your dpi and see if the pointer jumps over pixels.

hers is another good explanation

Resolution

The resolution of your screen tell you the number of pixels of a 2D plane. The fov tells you what portion of the view sphere is projected to that plane. Due to this projection, the view is compressed in the center and dilated at the boundary (which means that pixels in the center express wider angles than those at the boundary. If you think it should be the inverse, make a drawing, or think twice).

To put some numbers down, let's make an example only on one dimension: If you have an horizontal fov of 90 and play at 1680, a pixel will span (on average) ~0.05 degrees.

Mouse DPI

The mouse DPI determines how many ticks the mouse gets by moving it by one inch. By fixing a certain sensitivity (x inches per 360 degrees), you can compute the smallest angle you can rotate. I made a graph to show this:
http://n.ethz.ch/student/gnoris/download/mouse_precision.png

With a 400DPI mouse, most people will have a precision below 0.2 degrees.

High res, low DPI, is this a problem?

No. With low DPI and high res, there is no influence of the resolution over the aiming capabilities.

Consider you moving your mouse. Your mouse input gets converted to the game internal representation of where your character is aiming, and than, based on it, a representation of the world is rendered. How accurate this representation is depends on the resolution, but such resolution will not influence the internal representation (you will always hit that spot, no matter how many pixels are used to represent that spot).

So the real question is if 400DPI is enough, or not, and I think that with all IE3.0 used among pros, this question should not be a concern.

What *might* be a problem is the inverse, high DPI and low resolution. In this scenario your mouse is capable of expressing rotations that on your screen look all the same, as it is simply too low res for representing them. This however is science fiction for quake, as nobody really cares about high DPI mice, and nobody plays on 200x150 screens.


I also have a spread sheet I found of most competitive players in 2012's mouse settings.  Which shows what they use for there settings along with mousepads which effect things.  I'll post that when I get home.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 05:23:48 PM by Super_Gabber »
   
Offline  dellort
Re: Mouse Settings
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2013, 06:03:52 PM »
Rocketeer
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Video Maker Extraordinaire
Posts: 294
Most mice don't actually perform best at their highest dpi setting, generally the lowest amount of positive/negative accel of the sensor is somewhere between 800-1600 dpi depending on the mouse. The gain/loss in accuracy between different dpi settings is so small though that it won't actually affect your in game aiming, just pick a dpi comfortable to use when browsing and adjust your sensitivity in game. Keep in mind if your desktop sens and game sens are way different it might feel weird aiming in game if you don't play regularly.
   
Offline  J. Cheeseball (Super_Gabber)
Re: Mouse Settings
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2013, 06:29:35 PM »
Fly
**

Posts: 74
Here is the spreadsheet for competitive players settings if anyone is interested from 2012.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoXEN9ZAogzVdG9lODVQaHFSVEl6ZS1XN091a0lMR2c#gid=0
   
Offline  J. Cheeseball (Super_Gabber)
Re: Mouse Settings
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2013, 06:38:07 PM »
Fly
**

Posts: 74
Quote from: dellort on July 09, 2013, 06:03:52 PM
Most mice don't actually perform best at their highest dpi setting, generally the lowest amount of positive/negative accel of the sensor is somewhere between 800-1600 dpi depending on the mouse. The gain/loss in accuracy between different dpi settings is so small though that it won't actually affect your in game aiming, just pick a dpi comfortable to use when browsing and adjust your sensitivity in game. Keep in mind if your desktop sens and game sens are way different it might feel weird aiming in game if you don't play regularly.

Is there any weight to this statement?

Quote
Stop posting those silly calculations, they're pointless. In the end there's only 1 reason why more dpi could be usefull:

"Decreasing your ingame sens"

At sensitivity 1.0, for each count the PC receives from the mouse, the game will move 1 pixel to the corresponding direction. At sensitivity 2.0 it will skip a pixel and move 2 pixels in the corresponding direction. At 3.0 it will move 3, etc. Numbers in between like 2.75 are interpolated.

So in order to get maximum precision, one would need a sensitivity of 1.0, going lower is pointless as a pixel is the smallest increment visible on a monitor.

Where does dpi come in?

DPI simply get's more counts per inch, thus making the mouse more sensitive. Doubling your dpi simply means your mouse will move twice as fast.

So ideally (with raw input as otherwise you'll get negative acceleration), you'd have to adjust your sensitivity through the DPI settings of your mouse and get as close as possible to 1.0 ingame.

2 examples:


Ingame sens = 2.0 / DPI = 800 --> change sens to 1.0 and dpi to 1600
sens = 3.4 ingame / DPI = 800 --> (if possible, otherwise get as close as possible to 1.0) change dpi to 2760 and set ingame sens to 1.0


If you're using a sens as in the second example you should be shot. No point in going that high.

So more dpi is usefull, but we hardly need 5000 dpi. The extra precision is gained not by having more dpi, but by decreasing your ingame sens.
   
Offline  dellort
Re: Mouse Settings
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2013, 06:59:05 PM »
Rocketeer
****

Video Maker Extraordinaire
Posts: 294
Quote from: Super_Gabber on July 09, 2013, 06:38:07 PM
Quote from: dellort on July 09, 2013, 06:03:52 PM
Most mice don't actually perform best at their highest dpi setting, generally the lowest amount of positive/negative accel of the sensor is somewhere between 800-1600 dpi depending on the mouse. The gain/loss in accuracy between different dpi settings is so small though that it won't actually affect your in game aiming, just pick a dpi comfortable to use when browsing and adjust your sensitivity in game. Keep in mind if your desktop sens and game sens are way different it might feel weird aiming in game if you don't play regularly.

Is there any weight to this statement?

Quote
Stop posting those silly calculations, they're pointless. In the end there's only 1 reason why more dpi could be usefull:

"Decreasing your ingame sens"

At sensitivity 1.0, for each count the PC receives from the mouse, the game will move 1 pixel to the corresponding direction. At sensitivity 2.0 it will skip a pixel and move 2 pixels in the corresponding direction. At 3.0 it will move 3, etc. Numbers in between like 2.75 are interpolated.

So in order to get maximum precision, one would need a sensitivity of 1.0, going lower is pointless as a pixel is the smallest increment visible on a monitor.

Where does dpi come in?

DPI simply get's more counts per inch, thus making the mouse more sensitive. Doubling your dpi simply means your mouse will move twice as fast.

So ideally (with raw input as otherwise you'll get negative acceleration), you'd have to adjust your sensitivity through the DPI settings of your mouse and get as close as possible to 1.0 ingame.

2 examples:


Ingame sens = 2.0 / DPI = 800 --> change sens to 1.0 and dpi to 1600
sens = 3.4 ingame / DPI = 800 --> (if possible, otherwise get as close as possible to 1.0) change dpi to 2760 and set ingame sens to 1.0


If you're using a sens as in the second example you should be shot. No point in going that high.

So more dpi is usefull, but we hardly need 5000 dpi. The extra precision is gained not by having more dpi, but by decreasing your ingame sens.


Yeah, test it yourself. I guarantee any mouse on the market will show slight signs of acceleration (either positive or negative) as you go towards its extreme ranges of dpi. As I said before though it's a small difference and won't actually matter, but please don't get the mindset that highest dpi = best precision/performance because it's not true.
   
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