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Author Topic: Jump_Hajnal  (Read 1304 times)
Offline  Hajnal
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JUMP_HAJNAL

First map I've made for the Source engine, it's pretty easy 17 jumps, the focus more than anything else was multiple methods for finishing jumps and making the map look "pretty". I'm the still in the process of optimizing it to see if I can squeeze a couple of more jumps in, but it seems that probably wont be happening considering all the engine limits I hit. It's a wonder this even works at all.

gib crit, suggestions, love letters, anythin pls.


Pics in spoiler below.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thanks to Reaper the French, OvershootBOOT, Merkum, Ak, ReMaXed, and whoever else tested.

I'll be updating the map probably one more time.

Download:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/0nho3y5d46ddgdh/jump_hajnal_finalbeta.bsp
   
Offline  X_DIAS
Rocketman
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Posts: 643
The world is a cube
looks pretty badass from the pics
will try it
   
Offline  alle
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Posts: 103
gayyst
solly or demo? <3


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rip2pac4lyf
   
Offline  Guyyst
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So there's a bunch of stuff.

first of all you like never used nodraw on faces that are clearly not visible: http://puu.sh/4sm99.jpg

these giant screen thingys are solid: http://puu.sh/4slAg.jpg

And this: http://puu.sh/4slP4.jpg

Small things like this: http://puu.sh/4slPv.jpg

wtf: http://puu.sh/4slQE.jpg

If you go to fast this ramp will just stop your forward momentum: http://puu.sh/4slVM.jpg

uhm: http://puu.sh/4sm3C.jpg

And you have interacting brushes all over the map

oh and you didn't use hurtme triggers at all


I like the style of it but you got some big issues to fix there
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 05:48:41 PM by Guyyst »
   
Offline  Hajnal
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So there's a bunch of stuff.

first of all you like never used nodraw on faces that are clearly not visible: http://puu.sh/4sm99.jpg

Addressed in my first post, optimization is currently ongoing (including lowering detail in certain areas, and applying no draw) A couple of places already have some, the first 2 rooms notably. However this shouldn't impact gameplay/fps mainly because each room is isolated from each other, ensuring only a few faces are rendered at a time.


these giant screen thingys are solid: http://puu.sh/4slAg.jpg

This one and the screens on 12 are the only ones you can interact with, forgot to set this one as a non collision surface, will fix.

And this: http://puu.sh/4slP4.jpg

Small things like this: http://puu.sh/4slPv.jpg

I reduced the power of these displacements and forgot to adjust the seams, will fix

wtf: http://puu.sh/4slQE.jpg

This was fixed with a 3d skybox, I had to remove it in order for this version to compile, I've added it back in for the final

If you go to fast this ramp will just stop your forward momentum: http://puu.sh/4slVM.jpg

That's literally never happened to anyone who's tested this jump, must be an issue with this version only, will look in to it.

uhm: http://puu.sh/4sm3C.jpg

Fixed

And you have interacting brushes all over the map

And?

oh and you didn't use hurtme triggers at all

They aren't needed

I like the style of it but you got some big issues to fix there

Thanks, appreciate that and your reply, issues will be fixed.



solly or demo? <3

Soldier



Responses in bold.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 07:41:48 PM by Hajnal »
   
Rocketman
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Posts: 630
They aren't needed

Technically no, but it's kinda dumb not to. Nothing but annoyance making people walk between jumps. Why NOT?

Several spots that seemed would have a teleport trigger (and some that should: specifically, multiple wallclimbs I just landed on top of the wall) didn't, because you use the same texture for 'this teleports you' as 'you can walk on this'. Also makes the ending point of some jumps confusing for the same reason.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 09:10:32 PM by Kairu927 »
   
Offline  Hajnal
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They aren't needed

Technically no, but it's kinda dumb not to. Nothing but annoyance making people walk between jumps. Why NOT?

where specifically is this an issue?

Several spots that seemed would have a teleport trigger (and some that should: specifically, multiple wallclimbs I just landed on top of the wall)

can you point out where, I can't possibly think of where this could be an issue

 didn't, because you use the same texture for 'this teleports you' as 'you can walk on this'. Also makes the ending point of some jumps confusing for the same reason.

I tried to make the jumps as straightforward as possible in order to avoid this (with areas with light variants and the doorways) as you might be able to tell, combine textures don't have much variant between gray floor a and gray floor b


Responses in bold, thanks for the feedback, but i'd like for you to be more specific so I can really target problem areas.
   
Rocketeer
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Posts: 331
the skybox is the limit
I tried to make the jumps as straightforward as possible in order to avoid this (with areas with light variants and the doorways) as you might be able to tell, combine textures don't have much variant between gray floor a and gray floor b

As far as map theory goes, you just need something  to notify the player as to what areas should be avoided. For example, the valve devs use bottomless pits in  the combine areas of hl2 to very directly remind the player that those areas are inaccessible. As for a jump map, you could use a separate texture, blood splatter overlays or dead bodies, water, subtle changes in lighting (i.e. casting red lighting on to untouchable surfaces), or anything else along those lines.
   
Offline  Hajnal
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Bottomless pits were the original goal, as a matter of fact, the map looked much differently until recently, but idea was scrapped after getting compile issues.

But I like the blood idea, I'll figure out how decals work in this engine and try it out.

but to be honest, most jumps I don't think will need this, again, very straight forward and often cues are shown (red lighting in the last 7 jumps, bright final doorways in the first 10).
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 12:20:23 AM by Hajnal »
   
Offline  Wolsk
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Posts: 301
i love you
I'm gonna go through each stage of the map one-by-one.

Start: Very pretty map.  I like the detailing, and I like that you can get to the hard course by going up top.  It should be a bit more obvious that the bottom is the easy course and that the top is the hard course, though.  (I just noticed that there is a red light on the hard course and a blue light on the easy course, but it still isn't very obvious that they are two separate courses.)
Jump 1: Standard jump, no complaints.
Jump 2: The walls you need to shoot off are oddly shaped, making the jump kind of difficult.
Jump 3: There is no clear indication of what is a teleport, but it is relatively obvious.
Jump 4: There is no clear indication of what is a teleport, but it is relatively obvious.
Jump 5: Height is comfortable for doubles, no issues.
Jump 6: There is no clear indication of what is a teleport, but it is relatively obvious.
Jump 7: Not an issue, but why are there the force fields everywhere, yet you can go through them here?
Jump 8: There is no clear indication of what is a teleport, but it is relatively obvious.
Jump 9: The walls are very sticky, making this jump incredibly annoying, and I ended up cheating and wallclimbing up the side.  It also isn't clear that you are supposed to pogo on the top part, which should be changed.
Jump 10: After the first climb, switching to a pogo with slanted edges is pretty frustrating (and the two surfaces don't even connect well).  Also, the last platform is not needed because the jurf makes you fast enough to skip over it.
Jump 11: It doesn't say the name of this jump for some reason.  The ending thing should also look more like a button, and after shooting it, I'd suggest making the tunnel open up like a lid instead of sliding off.  It looks cooler and makes the tunnel a bit easier to get into.
Jump 12: I had the same issue as Guyyst that the speed gets cancelled or significantly slowed, which is probably because the angle of the ramp is a bit high.
Jump 13: There is no clear indication of what is a teleport, but it is relatively obvious.  This jump should also have something indicating when to switch off a wall.  I'd suggest a blue arrow pointing up for when to switch backwards to the pogo and a blue arrow pointing right for when to switch right.  Also, the last wallclimb wall is black, which I don't think was intended.
Jump 14: There is no clear indication of what is a teleport, but it is relatively obvious.
Jump 15: The second letter in the jump name is a diamond with a question mark in it, showing that it is some symbol I don't have.  Not a huge issue, by any means, but I thought I'd point it out.  I really like this jump, though I'd suggest moving the double platform down a bit, because the height feels a bit awkward.
Jump 16: The slanted edge of the starting platform messes up my initial jump quite often.  Moving the teleport_destination back a bit might help fix this issue.  Personally, I don't really like this jump, but I know you wouldn't remove it or drastically change it.  Moving the ending platform down slightly would improve the jump a lot, though, because the wall you have to climb is sticky, making it difficult to climb up.
Jump 17: I'm assuming this jump is meant to be done with a speedshot, but it is far easier to not do one.  You should make it clear that the jump doesn't end after the water double, possibly by angling the platform above the first waterfall or by getting rid of the platform entirely.  I found myself not getting much height from the jurf, so I ended up wallclimbing up the pipe, and I wasn't sure if that was something you wanted to be possible or not.  If so, the walls of the tunnel are sticky, so it is a bit annoying to climb up, and you are also able to stand on the edge of the very last ramp and just jump up because there is no teleport on it.

Although all of that may sound like a lot, most of these critiques are pretty minor and wouldn't require immense amounts of work.  I figured I'd just be thorough to improve the map as much as possible.  Overall, the map is pretty solid, pretty fun, and pretty nice-looking.  If possible, you should add the ability to go back to previous jumps after beating them by going back through the white squares.


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klanana:  I DID NOT EAT THE CAT
dellort: This mod is pretty cool, just wish the devs would fix the bug that allows MIKE to play on it.
   
Offline  Hajnal
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Thanks Wolsky, very in depth and well thought out crit, sticky walls and issues similar to that I assume are caused by how vbsp compiles and processes collision data from hammer. I'm not too familiar with this engine at all, but it the editor seems to be very very very heavily focused on creating geometry that is "square" or blocky because it's easier to process. This could explain why there isn't any sort of third party modeling software support for creating bsps. I'll look into ways to prevent this from happening, maybe adding some playerclip or a thin nodraw surface to prevent this.

For the record, the button on jump 11 is meant to be shot from the entrance, I'll figure out a way to make this clearer.

Besides that, most of what you asked are easy fixes, I'll get to it and try to add the teleports to go back jumps. I do think that triggers add to the max plane count, which is already at 97%. So this might not be possible.
   
Offline  Drexen
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Posts: 282
Very nice map, looks awesome. plays well.

About some of the mapping stuff thats been talked about here already:

dont worry about the maxplane count, or any of those % limit values at the bottom of the compile
looking over the map, i would agree a trigger_hurt is needed, just one large brush covering the whole map is perfectly fine, its very easy to kill yourself at some points, and most people expect them.

and about optimization, from a quick look over the map with mat_leafvis 2, doesnt seem like you use func_details. which are really useful! should cut down your probably large vvis compile time.

"but it seems that probably wont be happening considering all the engine limits I hit."
what specific engine limits? you could definitely add way more jumps into this map without too much trouble.

either way, awesome map
   
Offline  QuBA
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Posts: 134
"but it seems that probably wont be happening considering all the engine limits I hit."
what specific engine limits? you could definitely add way more jumps into this map without too much trouble.

dont worry about the maxplane count, or any of those % limit values at the bottom of the compile

Seriously drexen? lol
   
Soldier
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Posts: 105
first this map looks really good but something that makes this map really bad is that this map does not have a trigger_hurt its one entity and very easy to do.
i killed myself like 5 times now and evertime on a different jump.
trigger_hurt is basic for every jump map by now sometimes you dont need it but usually you should have it.
the rest got said but please use trigger_hurt in this map it would be so sad if not :/
   
Offline  Torii
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Posts: 108
Whirlwind "Torii Hurricane"
On jump2, I think the depression in the walls are quite unnecessary and makes it harder than it should be, add playerclip/nodraw or just make it square/rectangular

As for jump12... The ramp bumps you up when you're going fast, I find this tends to happen when you make the ramp out of multiple brushes

On jump13 you can stand on the first wallpogo wall.

As said... Add trigger_hurt around the entire map, no one likes to die after failing a sync and dying from fall damage or killing themselves rocket jumping to the next jump. Yeah one can use gboats but for one not eveyone has gboats, some don't like to change their loadout presets (like me) and it takes about 2 minutes to do and makes a map more jumping-friendly.

Overall, fun and well-detailed.


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